Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Vorph

Vorph

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Kreugen_sl said:
You are all just reaffirming what I've said all along. You all talk about how you want innovation and how much you hate the WoW formula and every new MMO is crap because it's just another clone and so on, and then a game comes out that offers next to nothing new or innovative whatsoever and you like it anyway. Those other games weren't bad because they lacked innovation and copied WoW too closely - those games were bad because they were bad games.

People don't want new, they want familiar. The most popular FPS on PC is STILL Counter Strike, 14 fucking years later. Call of Duty shits out a new clone twice a year and each iteration outsells the last.

FF14's main innovation is taking a giant step backwards in customization choices you have to make. No talent trees, no skill points, not alt advancement. Were those things ever even fun, or were they just an annoying system of tradeoffs? X skill is more fun and versatile, but I need Y to defeat this specific encounter. Does this game lose anything by getting rid of that shit? I've found them to be nothing more than a hindrance from the start. Maybe not having to pigeon hole yourself into a handful of catch-all talent builds is exactly what helps this stale retread of the tried and true seem fresh and fun.

Or maybe you're all just raging weaboos. It's hard enough finding an honest opinion when so many nerds get moist just hearing the FF title music.
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I don't know, I think you could call the class/job system a form of alternative advancement. The most ideal one imo, as I hate alts in MMOs even though I always seem to end up with an army of them in any game I play seriously. Keeping everything on one character and making actual alts pointless is perfect to me, even if I have no intention of leveling anything but the three DoM jobs to 50.

And I'm just a graphics whore. I'm pretty sure if I ever had a weeaboo card at all, it was revoked the moment I said that XII IZJS and XIII/XIII-2 were miles better than all the other games in the series. Weeaboos love that PS1 shit.

Title music? To hell with that, I want someone to find a way to patch in"Crazy Chocobo"to replace the stock riding music.
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Z

ZProtoss

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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The class/job system is awesome. If other MMOs steal anything from FFXIV (aside from the polish) they need to steal the class system. Being able to instantly change classes on the same character is incredible, and it adds a lot to the experience.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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There's room for tweaking the class system as well. There probably doesn't need to be 8 different main hands and off hands for the crafting classes when they all have the same stats. Especially when you consider they will likely expand on the combat classes and your armory chests will suffer from overload even further.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Flight_sl said:
As an aside while we are discussing items, here's a shot of lvl 15 green and pink items side by side to compare stats. Both are lvl 15 (and actually dropped in the same dungeon). Note that the bonus stats are the same, just that the pink has one additional stat.
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I guess that's just a weird designed item comparison. Anyway I compared a green weapon and a pink weapon from Hatali(the lvl 20 ones) and the green had like 2-3damage more, which is a pretty big difference(25 to 28 iirc). Other stats were identical. It might not be as apparent on armor because armor stats don't increase much, you need a fair amount of ilvl to get +1 in int or str or whatever and other than that it makes virtually no difference, +1armor is jackshit and so is +2crit in this example. Still you see the green has the higher base stat, which is what matters on weapons, just doesn't on armor so that makes the pink one better.

For the lvl 20 ACN books, I crafted the HQ book and it has 3determination more(so 1.5int 1.5mind) as well as 2 materia slots(which I guess is like 5-6int or so) than the pink one, and otherwise the same stats including the same damage. The green one has 2more base damage however so there's a good chance it's better than the HQ one by a good bit, but the added stats even it up a bit. So at least for that level it goes Pink < HQ < Green. As I explained when I crafted it however, the fact you don't have to run dungeons 20times or more to get it is obviously a pretty big plus. It only took me 2 tries to get a HQ proc, I think I was a bit lucky but not that much, Alchemy first cross class skill is actually really good for crafting HQ stuff, it's a free skill that lets you get 20CP back whenever the item condition is good, doesn't use durability or CP and I had over 80% chance to HQ the book on the try it worked and had just failed with 50%. Now you do need HQ ressources but I did it with store bought leather, only HQ materials I had were the wood which is very easy to get anyway, takes like a minute to get 5.
 
A

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
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Kreugen_sl said:
You are all just reaffirming what I've said all along. You all talk about how you want innovation and how much you hate the WoW formula and every new MMO is crap because it's just another clone and so on, and then a game comes out that offers next to nothing new or innovative whatsoever and you like it anyway. Those other games weren't bad because they lacked innovation and copied WoW too closely - those games were bad because they were bad games.

People don't want new, they want familiar. The most popular FPS on PC is STILL Counter Strike, 14 fucking years later. Call of Duty shits out a new clone twice a year and each iteration outsells the last.

FF14's main innovation is taking a giant step backwards in customization choices you have to make. No talent trees, no skill points, not alt advancement. Were those things ever even fun, or were they just an annoying system of tradeoffs? X skill is more fun and versatile, but I need Y to defeat this specific encounter. Does this game lose anything by getting rid of that shit? I've found them to be nothing more than a hindrance from the start. Maybe not having to pigeon hole yourself into a handful of catch-all talent builds is exactly what helps this stale retread of the tried and true seem fresh and fun.

Or maybe you're all just raging weaboos. It's hard enough finding an honest opinion when so many nerds get moist just hearing the FF title music.
Click to expand...
There's definitely something to be said for tradition and simplicty, but I think they'll have trouble maintaining prolonged success with a game that's this simple (primitive is the word, really) in 2013. A lot of what made Everquest great was that it was just so new and captivating because nothing like it had really been seen before, but it lacked character diversity even then and suffered from the fact that every character of a certain class was the same save for equipment. Even Ultima Online had strong character customization with very diverse and distinctive options for character building despite being an extremely simple system. Simplicity is neat right now because it's a refreshing change from the last half-dozen years where MMORPGs have been increasingly convoluted and formulaic, but will it last? What's going to keep people playing three months in?
 
Guzrog

Guzrog

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Kreugen_sl said:
You are all just reaffirming what I've said all along. You all talk about how you want innovation and how much you hate the WoW formula and every new MMO is crap because it's just another clone and so on, and then a game comes out that offers next to nothing new or innovative whatsoever and you like it anyway. Those other games weren't bad because they lacked innovation and copied WoW too closely - those games were bad because they were bad games.

People don't want new, they want familiar. The most popular FPS on PC is STILL Counter Strike, 14 fucking years later. Call of Duty shits out a new clone twice a year and each iteration outsells the last.

FF14's main innovation is taking a giant step backwards in customization choices you have to make. No talent trees, no skill points, not alt advancement. Were those things ever even fun, or were they just an annoying system of tradeoffs? X skill is more fun and versatile, but I need Y to defeat this specific encounter. Does this game lose anything by getting rid of that shit? I've found them to be nothing more than a hindrance from the start. Maybe not having to pigeon hole yourself into a handful of catch-all talent builds is exactly what helps this stale retread of the tried and true seem fresh and fun.

Or maybe you're all just raging weaboos. It's hard enough finding an honest opinion when so many nerds get moist just hearing the FF title music.
Click to expand...

Woah there Kreugen. You're getting out of this boards comfort zone bringing up potentially valid discussion points that could lead to relevant posts with actual content. Watch yourself.

That said for me:
1.)Character development. Talents etc. I've never been a fan. Outside of the bad players nearly everyone picks the same cookie cutter shit. Just design the class good in the first place. This type of customization (so far) is just a myth. Even wow's more streamlined version there is a better choice always. Rift was a fantastic example of a bloated system that didn't need to exist in the first place and hopefully the last of that type of system we see. As excited as I was for GW2. I didn't enjoy the easy unlocking of abilities, trait system, or lack of real class roles at all. Just my opinion.

2.)Job system.I played XI and I loved it there. Much like Vorph I fucking hate alts yet somehow end up with them. Sometimes you get bored and want to try another class though and its nice to not lose all your progress (bag space, teleport locations, achievements, whatever, making a brand new character and starting from scratch. With a new name as well.

3.)Graphics. They are fantastic and it runs incredibly well. They really have grown on me. I don't watch any anime or read mangas. I have not played any of the Final Fantasy games except the MMOs. When I played FFXI I nearly quit 5 minutes after I equipped a subligar. The first 20 minutes in the game felt like a gay fetish parade. While I am not a fan of the subligars to this day they don't bother me and neither to the lalafeel/tarutarus. They're just there and I really like the armor style and world design.

4.)Story. I am really digging it, including the fact I'm a generic adventurer and not some NUMBER ONE HERO!!! There is a bit of ambiguity to the quest dialogue and thats cool, as well as a bit of connections between areas. I see NPCS I interacted with in a cut scene somewhere within the vicinity (like a near by town) but not at the quest location. I really enjoy the story telling and lore. Not to the extent that SWTOR did it - which was over the top, but also not the complete lack of depth that Tera had. I feel like FF strikes a great balance between the two and again. I'm not a fan of the regular FF games or anime at all.

5.)Gamepad. This is a big one for me. I like that I can play on my PS3 (which I'll be honest it kind of looks like ass even if it runs good) or my PC which is a beast. With the same account depending on how lazy my ass/back is feeling. Even on the PC I use the gamepad. I did it in XI and if you get good it doesn't hold you back especially with all the customization FFXIV gives you. Plus lets face it - this is yet another hot bar spam MMO. Playing with the gamepad makes it feel refreshing compared to hitting 1-6 + additional 30 keybinds again. Very refreshing.

6.)FFXI. I played XI longer than any MMO but EQ. It just became too time consuming and eventually I jumped ship for WOW. I never did HNM/raiding in FFXI and I still consider it my favorite MMO so for me there is of course some nostalgia. Hell I didn't even buy the game my friend had to get it for me because I wouldn't touch "that anime crap."

All that said I really hope the complete lack of communication during the 3102 errors didn't take away a signifigant chunk of their potential sales. I think they have a winner on their hands at least if they can keep the content up. Even if its not super hardcore mode raiding crap which I don't think will be their niche anyway. Only time will tell.

EDIT: How could I forget the music. It is all incredible and memorable.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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axeman_sl said:
There's definitely something to be said for tradition and simplicty, but I think they'll have trouble maintaining prolonged success with a game that's this simple (primitive is the word, really) in 2013. A lot of what made Everquest great was that it was just so new and captivating because nothing like it had really been seen before, but it lacked character diversity even then and suffered from the fact that every character of a certain class was the same save for equipment. Even Ultima Online had strong character customization with very diverse and distinctive options for character building despite being an extremely simple system. Simplicity is neat right now because it's a refreshing change from the last half-dozen years where MMORPGs have been increasingly convoluted and formulaic, but will it last? What's going to keep people playing three months in?
Click to expand...
FATE World Bosses. Go from there.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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I had fun, and easily put in 30 hours over these 3 days and still want more. That's all that matters.

I don't worry about the future, I worry about right now. As soon as its no longer fun, I stop playing. With today's diversity, I don't NEED a game to occupy my sole time for 3-4 years, if it happens it happens and more power to the company that can do it, but it's not even close to a requirement.
 
Dandain

Dandain

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Anyone have problems with Greenmangaming accepting a purchase request? it just hang and doesn't do anything at make payment. I've tried in firefox and I.E. Same problem
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Dandain_sl said:
Anyone have problems with Greenmangaming accepting a purchase request? it just hang and doesn't do anything at make payment. I've tried in firefox and I.E. Same problem
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Yeah GMG is a piece of shit, I preordered from them because when I tried it worked and I figured I'd get the reduction, but that was a month ago, it seems whenever there's some load on their servers or whatever, it just stops working entirely or rejects payment. Hell even when I ordered it wouldn't work with Paypal for whatever fucked up reason. It also still can't figure out my IP isn't UK but that's alright I guess. Really fucking hate them but they do have the best prices most of the time.
 
bixxby

bixxby

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Game just taps the vein that the last few years games haven't. Can't explain why it's so enjoyable but god damn do I want to play right now.
 
swayze22

swayze22

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How is the gamepad playability in this? I have never played a MMO with a gamepad but I have a 360 controller. If i can get near keyboard+mouse-like results i might give it a shot

-ps someone pm me guild info?

Dandain_sl said:
Anyone have problems with Greenmangaming accepting a purchase request? it just hang and doesn't do anything at make payment. I've tried in firefox and I.E. Same problem
Click to expand...
I ordered from GMG on chrome via my Galaxy S4 about 2 hours ago with the 25% off discount.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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Gamepad is near-perfect, and I couldn't imagine playing the game without one after using it for all of P3 and P4. As good as it is for regular classes, it's even better for gathering and crafting due to the way the pad defaults to things that you'd have to move the mouse around to click on normally. And it's great when you run into annoying shit like the 1017 error and can just hit your X button over and over to get back in the game.
 
Dandain

Dandain

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My order took on GMG swapping to chrome finally, no idea why or whatever but it finally took.

GMG25-OGRUH-7SM8H 25% off code to anyone else buying (22.50 USD)
 
Gravel

Gravel

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Malakriss_sl said:
FATE World Bosses. Go from there.
Click to expand...
Speaking of, I thought the one in Eastern Shroud was pretty awesome. You had to have an 8 man party and go to the correct spawn area, and boom, it spawns a FATE. Gave a minion as the reward with no xp. Apparently there more of these. Was definitely fun, and it was a much tougher fight than anything else (mostly due to poison which no one saw).

I have no idea how you play this shit with a gamepad. Seems like it'd be slow. I'll stick to KB/mouse, thanks.
 
Crone

Crone

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Just bought it on GMG with the 25% off code. For that cheap? Why not! Try it out for the free month, and see what happens.

Going back to what Kreugen said. I think he's right. People don't want brand new. They do like the familiar. As said, I think what is appealing is a lot of those quality of life things that are already in game, that makes the first impressions of the game focused on the game, and not people saying how tedious this or that was. It's almost as they realized that the people playing the game would be MMO vets at this point in the genre, and so the bag space thing, traveling, etc are things they wanted to make sure were convenient. To a brand new person to MMO's it may seem like normal running out of bag space, but to a vet, it's just tedious and annoying.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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Elurin_sl said:
I have no idea how you play this shit with a gamepad. Seems like it'd be slow. I'll stick to KB/mouse, thanks.
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The whole game is slow, so it doesn't matter. Targeting is the only issue, and that's solved by properly setting up filters. The only problem as of right now is that fucking carbuncles are not filtered out like they should be, but that is an annoyance no matter which input you use. And as I mentioned for gathering/crafting it's actually a hell of a lot faster and easier than you could possibly do it with kb/m.
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
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First I'm with Gurzog about the 3102 lack of communication may hurt them but I hope they've learned their lesson going forward. Unfortunate at that , seems like such a simple to thing to be ahead of , that when tens of thousands (their own words) of your players are locked out , don't wait hours to say at least something , and yes , it's worth bringing everything down shortly to try and fix it. Everyone raging for 30 mins is better than the hours turning into day(s) of people screaming about it.

And I'm odd man out here am sure but I get what Kreugen is saying about the hype for anything "different" and "innovative". When I sit down to play a Madden/NCAA game I just want better graphics and tweak this or that and add a little feature here and there , but don't fucking suddenly turn it into arena rules , that's not what I want when I want to play NCAA/NFL games.

I've noticed over the years , when a company/dev tries to sell their game mainly on how "different" and "innovative" it is , it's likely a piece of shit at it's core. There's something said for not trying to reinvent the wheel.

Same with mmorpg's , and where I know it's heresy , but here goes.

I like the trinity , defined class roles setup. (Yes EQN devs , fuck you , it's ok for someone to want to play a pure healer).

I like tab target combat , gasp , with a global cooldoown between , for mmorpg combat. (When I want to play CS twitch style games , I'll playe CS twitch style games).

World polish on the little things ARE important. Fuck telling me you can't have a day/night cycle because the cutscene stories wouldn't look right. Weather and day/night cycle trump trying to tell me a story any time any moment in a mmorpg.

Changing a feature here and there , adding a new cool addition ? Great. Don't create a pseudo ARPG with a few multiplayer features and call it an mmo though.

Using SWTOR/Neverwinter as examples though of exactly what I don't want in an mmo , deciding the voice acted story and having phasing for every little bit of the game trump important virtual world feeling/features is the last thing I want in an mmo.

In a nutshell , FFXIV has come out of nowhere honestly as a game I'm really looking forward to playing , as I've gotten sick of action combat/instance/no weather/no virtual world feeling/we can't program sitting in a fucking chair mmo's. While there will be dropoff as with any mmo , I think this one might hold a few more than usual just because it's an actual mmo in every sense of the word and done well.

Except for that 3102 bullshit , come on SE , let's have none of that this upcoming weekend.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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it sounds like a lot of folks are enjoying some of the defining aspects of FFXI but refined to 2013 tastes a bit more with better UI etc. Those of us that played FFXI consistently promoted how bad ass the job system is. (or at least one like it)
 
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