Funny, Strange, Random Pics

Peteage said:

Gandalf and Tom Bombadil are not older than Galadriel or Elrond.

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Gandalf being a Maiar, I'm pretty sure he was there during the Ainulindalë (the creation of Arda) and thus before even the creation of the elves.

Malkav said:

Gandalf being a Maiar, I'm pretty sure he was there during the Ainulindalë (the creation of Arda) and thus before even the creation of the elves.

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i thought the Istari didn't turn up until the Valar abandoned ship from middle-earth.
if Gandalf/the Istari existed in some other form before the third age, i missed the link completely.

Olorin was my name in my youth in the west that is forgotten (something like that)

Peteage said:

i thought the Istari didn't turn up until the Valar abandoned ship from middle-earth.
if Gandalf/the Istari existed in some other form before the third age, i missed the link completely.

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Depends on what you mean by "Gandalf" I suppose. If referring only to that particular incarnation as an Istari then you'd be right.

However, if referring to the Maia spirit Olórin as an entity, then he was created by Ilúvatar before the Music of the Ainur; the song that created the Universe. That would make him older than time itself (if such a statement even makes sense).

hmm, ok.
so the wizards pre-date the noldor. but surely bombadil came around much later.


anyway, time to dig this book out again i think. it's always a good read.
also, this is some good background music if you dig metal bands shouting about fantasy fiction.

Peteage said:

hmm, ok.
so the wizards pre-date the noldor. but surely bombadil came around much later.

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Tolkien never says exactly what Tom Bombadil is, but given a few clues such as him being immune to the ring's effects (while even Maiar can be corrupted by it) and his statement about just existing (similar to the old testament biblical god saying, "I am") most people think that he is Ilúvatar himself.

Being that Ilúvatar created the Valar and Maiar, he would be older than even Gandalf.

Denaut said:

Tolkien never says exactly what Tom Bombadil is, but given a few clues such as him being immune to the ring's effects (while even Maiar can be corrupted by it) and his statement about just existing (similar to the old testament biblical god saying, "I am") most people think that he is Ilúvatar himself.

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This is total Feanor bait, must bite.

If you guys want to know what LotR nerds think there's a few main theories.

Tom is an old doll. He existed before The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

First of all Tom is the one true mystery in Tolkien's lengendarium. Intentionally so. Tolkien said all stories must have a mystery even to the author. I agree with this. Yet another example of him understanding nature and narrative. Nothing is ever fully explained in nonfiction.

1. Tom is the author, his kids, the real world.

The easiest and most probable answer. I don't buy it. Sounds easy hence thoroughly un-Tolkienish, which is why it might be true if you know Tolkien.

2. Tom is not Iluvatar.

This idea was somewhat popular among folks familiar with the books but not the author. This idea goes against Tolkien's concept of sub-creation and his personal style. Details point to a much more subtle poetic answer.

3. Tom is Arda.

Possibly but why is he not concerned with the world? Why live in the Old Forest conveniently near the Shire?

4. Tom is an old school indo-european mythic personification of the Music of the Ainur.

He is a living remnant of the music that came before Arda. Arda is etymologically related to eorthe, erde, erda in Old English.

Dig 4 but no one knows. It might be number 1.

Miami strip club over the superbowl weekend.