Furor's 14 Days rant & First Look at WoW
- Thread starter Lambourne
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Lambourne
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 2,905
- 6,928
Found it I think, doesn't look like Furor wrote it though. I don't really remember this event well as I played an Enchanter most of my time in EQ.
The Steel Warrior - Call to Arms! STAND DOWN!
Fellow Warriors,
I know that I'm no formal leader of the Warrior community. I'd love to see someone like Furor or Brutul take this up, but still I can't stand by and watch this anymore without taking action!
After years of watching us erode into what we are now. Years of seeing the parses, the breakdowns, the explanations of how sad balance and particularly our class has become. Here's where I personally am at on this:
I'm willing to be banned to make a statement!
If you are as upset about our situation as I am, then lets do this:
On Tuesday, December the 2nd, beginning at 9AM (EST) lasting until 9PM (EST) Warriors of all levels will stage a STAND DOWN at or around the Plane of Tranquility stone in the Plane of Knowledge on all Servers.
- We will bag our weapons, save for Warrior Epic (a ceremonial weapon of decoration). If you have the Jagged Blade of War, please wield it for this event.
- We will /join serverwide.standdown:warrior
- We will /feedback, /bug and /afk the same message: "I am a Warrior/Monk/Rogue. Hear my plea. I demand a statement be issued concerning Melee balancing! Until then, I will stand here and wait."
- We will /lfg using the LFG window to use the message text of: Standing Down
- We will periodically notify the zone of our purpose using Shout or OOC, but will ignore hecklers globally addressing them via /tell or in channel only.
** Recommended SHOUT text: "Today we STAND DOWN in defiance of the pure melee class imbalance that exists, and has existed, in Norrath. May Rallos strengthen our plea to the Gods!"
** Recommended OOC text: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES!"
- We will allow access to the Tranq stone (if we don't SOE staff will remove us from the zone and possibly from the game)
- Any GM communication that originates should be directed toward serverwide.standdown:warrior which will be moderated by leaders of the Warrior community.
* STANDING DOWN previous to the event on the 2nd *
A surprising number of us are already STANDING DOWN. If you don't want to wait for the 18th and wish to show support starting NOW here are the variations upon instructions above:
- We will /AFK the same message: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES! goto www.thesteelwarrior.org to sign up!"
- We will periodically notify the zone of our purpose using Shout or OOC, but will ignore hecklers globally addressing them via /tell or in channel only.
** Recommended SHOUT text: "The time is coming, soon few will become many. The Gods can ignore our call for only so long. The STAND DOWN approaches..."
** Recommended OOC text: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES! goto www.thesteelwarrior.org to sign up!"
What are we after?:
- Acknowledgment of the existence of a pure Melee class imbalance.
- Clear statement that the imbalance will be corrected, with a best guess of timeline.
- The acknowledgement and statement(s) must be posted in the following locations (offhanded remarks by Absor or fan faire GMs have not and will not generate results!):
EQLive - Upcoming Updates
EQLive - Future Plans
What is wrong with pure Melee classes? What do you suggest be done?:
- For Monk and Rogue concerns, please visit their forums to discern their imbalances:
EQMonks and Monkly Business for Monks
the Safehouse for Rogues
- As for Warriors, we have many items of concern. Most recently a prime example of our problems are most easily summed up by the "Who needs Warriors anyway?" chronicles being conducted by the Arch Overseers guild, wherein they've used Knights to successfully tank Quarm, RallosB, Bertox. All end game encounters previously thought to be War tankable only. Anything a Knight can successfully tank, they immediately become the preferred tank because of the reliability of their Aggro generation. We obviously are the 3rd or 4th preferred Exp grouping tank. Now we are becoming the 3rd preferred Raid tank. We have zero utility, we are the Tanking parent class, supposedly the undisputed Best Tank in the game. Itemization and boosts to Knights have brought them within a couple hundred HP of us, and equal or greater AC (Innate HP gap between Wars and Knights). So what really is our advantage (Advantage?)?
- The mission of this STAND DOWN is not to make precise demands, mainly to boost knowledge and awareness of the Melee class imbalance and motivate SOE to address the problem. However, many suggestions have been made within the following threads and all over the Steelwarrior forums:
BrainStorm (post ideas here)
How I'd fix warriors
What are the goals of the STAND DOWN?
Ideas to improve the Warrior class
If you don't want to use your Main, then create a newbie Warrior to do the STAND DOWN. If your friends want to join the cause, encourage them to also create a newbie Warrior. Use all your accounts, turn-out is important for this to work!
If you are in support and will join the cause, please respond and help us spread the word!
Various EQ News sites will be notified of the STAND DOWN on Friday the 14th.
**edit 11.07.03 - Shikarii**
Chat Channel set to serverwide.standdown:warrior .. Admin is set plus mods will be added. It will be strictly moderated to keep relevance with this thread's motion for group action.
**update 11.09.03 - Darkoan**
The STAND DOWN has already begun. If you want to begin standing down on your servers, do it! The /petition portion will be saved for the 18th, but match the AFK message listed here. One voice, One mission. Darkoan is now a fixture in the Plane of Knowledge.
**update 11.10.03 - Darkoan**
Due to overwhelming request /petition has been removed from the action items. It was never our intent to flood petition queues and possibly cause harm to other players. Also, made it a bit more clear what we are after with our STAND DOWN. Miscellaneous changes.
**update 11.12.03 - Darkoan**
Added ZhaoVizier's idea to use message text in LFG window. Clarified many things. Added a PRE-EVENT section. Added statement urgeing players be allowed access to Tranq stone, as SOE has shown a resolve in this area.
**update 11.15.03 - Darkoan**
Following the information posted on EQVault we are strongly considering Postponing STAND DOWN till after the online chat with SOE on the 24th. Please everyone vote using the link provided at the top of the post.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
STAND DOWN has been POSTPONED till Tuesday, December 2nd
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
[63 Warlord] Darkoan (Dark Elf)
I know that I'm no formal leader of the Warrior community. I'd love to see someone like Furor or Brutul take this up, but still I can't stand by and watch this anymore without taking action!
After years of watching us erode into what we are now. Years of seeing the parses, the breakdowns, the explanations of how sad balance and particularly our class has become. Here's where I personally am at on this:
I'm willing to be banned to make a statement!
If you are as upset about our situation as I am, then lets do this:
On Tuesday, December the 2nd, beginning at 9AM (EST) lasting until 9PM (EST) Warriors of all levels will stage a STAND DOWN at or around the Plane of Tranquility stone in the Plane of Knowledge on all Servers.
- We will bag our weapons, save for Warrior Epic (a ceremonial weapon of decoration). If you have the Jagged Blade of War, please wield it for this event.
- We will /join serverwide.standdown:warrior
- We will /feedback, /bug and /afk the same message: "I am a Warrior/Monk/Rogue. Hear my plea. I demand a statement be issued concerning Melee balancing! Until then, I will stand here and wait."
- We will /lfg using the LFG window to use the message text of: Standing Down
- We will periodically notify the zone of our purpose using Shout or OOC, but will ignore hecklers globally addressing them via /tell or in channel only.
** Recommended SHOUT text: "Today we STAND DOWN in defiance of the pure melee class imbalance that exists, and has existed, in Norrath. May Rallos strengthen our plea to the Gods!"
** Recommended OOC text: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES!"
- We will allow access to the Tranq stone (if we don't SOE staff will remove us from the zone and possibly from the game)
- Any GM communication that originates should be directed toward serverwide.standdown:warrior which will be moderated by leaders of the Warrior community.
* STANDING DOWN previous to the event on the 2nd *
A surprising number of us are already STANDING DOWN. If you don't want to wait for the 18th and wish to show support starting NOW here are the variations upon instructions above:
- We will /AFK the same message: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES! goto www.thesteelwarrior.org to sign up!"
- We will periodically notify the zone of our purpose using Shout or OOC, but will ignore hecklers globally addressing them via /tell or in channel only.
** Recommended SHOUT text: "The time is coming, soon few will become many. The Gods can ignore our call for only so long. The STAND DOWN approaches..."
** Recommended OOC text: "PURE MELEE STAND DOWN! serverwide.standdown:warrior! BALANCE THE CLASSES! goto www.thesteelwarrior.org to sign up!"
What are we after?:
- Acknowledgment of the existence of a pure Melee class imbalance.
- Clear statement that the imbalance will be corrected, with a best guess of timeline.
- The acknowledgement and statement(s) must be posted in the following locations (offhanded remarks by Absor or fan faire GMs have not and will not generate results!):
EQLive - Upcoming Updates
EQLive - Future Plans
What is wrong with pure Melee classes? What do you suggest be done?:
- For Monk and Rogue concerns, please visit their forums to discern their imbalances:
EQMonks and Monkly Business for Monks
the Safehouse for Rogues
- As for Warriors, we have many items of concern. Most recently a prime example of our problems are most easily summed up by the "Who needs Warriors anyway?" chronicles being conducted by the Arch Overseers guild, wherein they've used Knights to successfully tank Quarm, RallosB, Bertox. All end game encounters previously thought to be War tankable only. Anything a Knight can successfully tank, they immediately become the preferred tank because of the reliability of their Aggro generation. We obviously are the 3rd or 4th preferred Exp grouping tank. Now we are becoming the 3rd preferred Raid tank. We have zero utility, we are the Tanking parent class, supposedly the undisputed Best Tank in the game. Itemization and boosts to Knights have brought them within a couple hundred HP of us, and equal or greater AC (Innate HP gap between Wars and Knights). So what really is our advantage (Advantage?)?
- The mission of this STAND DOWN is not to make precise demands, mainly to boost knowledge and awareness of the Melee class imbalance and motivate SOE to address the problem. However, many suggestions have been made within the following threads and all over the Steelwarrior forums:
BrainStorm (post ideas here)
How I'd fix warriors
What are the goals of the STAND DOWN?
Ideas to improve the Warrior class
If you don't want to use your Main, then create a newbie Warrior to do the STAND DOWN. If your friends want to join the cause, encourage them to also create a newbie Warrior. Use all your accounts, turn-out is important for this to work!
If you are in support and will join the cause, please respond and help us spread the word!
Various EQ News sites will be notified of the STAND DOWN on Friday the 14th.
**edit 11.07.03 - Shikarii**
Chat Channel set to serverwide.standdown:warrior .. Admin is set plus mods will be added. It will be strictly moderated to keep relevance with this thread's motion for group action.
**update 11.09.03 - Darkoan**
The STAND DOWN has already begun. If you want to begin standing down on your servers, do it! The /petition portion will be saved for the 18th, but match the AFK message listed here. One voice, One mission. Darkoan is now a fixture in the Plane of Knowledge.
**update 11.10.03 - Darkoan**
Due to overwhelming request /petition has been removed from the action items. It was never our intent to flood petition queues and possibly cause harm to other players. Also, made it a bit more clear what we are after with our STAND DOWN. Miscellaneous changes.
**update 11.12.03 - Darkoan**
Added ZhaoVizier's idea to use message text in LFG window. Clarified many things. Added a PRE-EVENT section. Added statement urgeing players be allowed access to Tranq stone, as SOE has shown a resolve in this area.
**update 11.15.03 - Darkoan**
Following the information posted on EQVault we are strongly considering Postponing STAND DOWN till after the online chat with SOE on the 24th. Please everyone vote using the link provided at the top of the post.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
STAND DOWN has been POSTPONED till Tuesday, December 2nd
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
[63 Warlord] Darkoan (Dark Elf)
- 2
Brikker
Trump's Staff
- 6,342
- 4,914
I remember logging into the WoW open beta (or stress test, can't remember) in my freshman dorm and playing a talent-less Orc Hunter, realizing it was the future of MMO's. I was right! Of course I didn't know it was the ONLY future mmo of note, at the time...
- 5
yamikazo
Trakanon Raider
- 1,361
- 546
How can I like this post more?
The problem with WoW became it was the ideal, not just an ideal or a great example of, MMO. The industry hasn't recovered since Blizzardmageddon. Hell, not even Blizzard knows what to do in the MMO space some 15 years later.
- 2
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
Another great rant. This time from Tigole nearly 15 years ago.
Big Brother Is Watching . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Friday, August 3, 2001 -- tigole
An Unrelated Story
Many years ago when I was in elementary school I remember meeting this kid named VInny on the playground. VInny seemed like a nice guy. He invited me to play a game with him At first, I was unfamiliar with the game. Slowly VInny explained all the rules to me. They were complicated but I learned quickly. After awhile, I got to be so good at the game, that I kept beating VInny. Poor VInny had some ego issues it seemed because each time I would beat him at his own game, he would change the rules on me. Man, VInny was a spoiled brat. I think he grew up and works for some computer company in San Diego now. . .
In other news. . .
As most of you know Kael was brought down last night and patched. The ability to charm the majority of mobs in the zone was removed. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the reason for this nerf was because of the recent AoW killings by LoS/SoS. While our victories over the AoW were perfectly within the rules of the game, VI decided to alter those rules. I've read that there are over 300,000+ Everquest subscribers. I find it fascinating that a company took the time to alter their game to basically say "screw you" to 80 of those 300.000+. What's worse is, this nerf wasn't a "thumbed nose" at LoS/SoS for killing their "unkillable" mob. This nerf affects a vast array of people.
Enchanters you are now buff whores. Time to start a rogue.
Druids lost their ability to charm wolves. Back to casting PoG and dying after your first fire debuff. Hey I think the Monk needs SoW -- zone out to WL.
Exp groups and Armor Farmers now have to deal with uncharmable giants.
Smaller guilds who used pet tanks on Vind and Statue can no longer use those methods.
Many claim the AoW is now unkillable. I haven't decided yet. Give me a few tries and I'll get back to you on that one.
Perhaps instead of bringing down Kael, Verant should have re-patched Everquest and removed all classes but Warriors/Clerics/Rogues/Wizards and while they are at it they can remove CoV faction from the game. Not that anyone had much reason to be on CoV faction in the first place (thanks Dozekar NERF, 2 tears per kill), but this is like the last "fuck you" that CoV guilds are going to stand for. With ALL the things wrong with this game -- BROKEN quests, BUGGED pathing, WARPING mobs, endless UI GLITCHES -- Verant takes the time to bring down a zone because 80 people out of 300,000+ killed ONE mob? Not only that but their solution is to fuck over enchanters, druids, anyone on CoV faction? Of course no one is surprised. We've seen countless nerfs. But this honetsly has to be one of the most RETARDED, knee-jerk reactions I've ever witnessed.
We're not your goddamned beta testers. We're not your Quality Assurance department. Either start sending me paychecks or cut out this "live beta test" bullshit.
You want Dragons dead and not Giants? Fine, here's your fucking dead dragon
Note: Figured this doesn't deserve its own unique thread.
Big Brother Is Watching . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Friday, August 3, 2001 -- tigole
An Unrelated Story
Many years ago when I was in elementary school I remember meeting this kid named VInny on the playground. VInny seemed like a nice guy. He invited me to play a game with him At first, I was unfamiliar with the game. Slowly VInny explained all the rules to me. They were complicated but I learned quickly. After awhile, I got to be so good at the game, that I kept beating VInny. Poor VInny had some ego issues it seemed because each time I would beat him at his own game, he would change the rules on me. Man, VInny was a spoiled brat. I think he grew up and works for some computer company in San Diego now. . .
In other news. . .
As most of you know Kael was brought down last night and patched. The ability to charm the majority of mobs in the zone was removed. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the reason for this nerf was because of the recent AoW killings by LoS/SoS. While our victories over the AoW were perfectly within the rules of the game, VI decided to alter those rules. I've read that there are over 300,000+ Everquest subscribers. I find it fascinating that a company took the time to alter their game to basically say "screw you" to 80 of those 300.000+. What's worse is, this nerf wasn't a "thumbed nose" at LoS/SoS for killing their "unkillable" mob. This nerf affects a vast array of people.
Enchanters you are now buff whores. Time to start a rogue.
Druids lost their ability to charm wolves. Back to casting PoG and dying after your first fire debuff. Hey I think the Monk needs SoW -- zone out to WL.
Exp groups and Armor Farmers now have to deal with uncharmable giants.
Smaller guilds who used pet tanks on Vind and Statue can no longer use those methods.
Many claim the AoW is now unkillable. I haven't decided yet. Give me a few tries and I'll get back to you on that one.
Perhaps instead of bringing down Kael, Verant should have re-patched Everquest and removed all classes but Warriors/Clerics/Rogues/Wizards and while they are at it they can remove CoV faction from the game. Not that anyone had much reason to be on CoV faction in the first place (thanks Dozekar NERF, 2 tears per kill), but this is like the last "fuck you" that CoV guilds are going to stand for. With ALL the things wrong with this game -- BROKEN quests, BUGGED pathing, WARPING mobs, endless UI GLITCHES -- Verant takes the time to bring down a zone because 80 people out of 300,000+ killed ONE mob? Not only that but their solution is to fuck over enchanters, druids, anyone on CoV faction? Of course no one is surprised. We've seen countless nerfs. But this honetsly has to be one of the most RETARDED, knee-jerk reactions I've ever witnessed.
We're not your goddamned beta testers. We're not your Quality Assurance department. Either start sending me paychecks or cut out this "live beta test" bullshit.
You want Dragons dead and not Giants? Fine, here's your fucking dead dragon
Note: Figured this doesn't deserve its own unique thread.
- 2
Dyvim
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 1,420
- 195
I remember that Tigole rant and theres some more background to be told, cause its been that long.
Some patch completely broke pet aggro; alas when someone in group had a pet out it would out aggro any other class. It was plain out annoying to everyone, tanks complained they couldnt get aggro unless they used the root aggro work around and pet classes were fucked cause their pets would get eaten by mobs in a whim and after that it was aggro roulette which could wipe groups. Everyone complained for weeks, pets werent casted in groups at all and SOE claimed... working as intended... ofc.
Then raiders said FU and started to exploit the pet aggro by charming zone mobs and have them tank in raids, resulting in disabling charm via hotfix instead of fixing pet aggro, which took another week or so to finally fix.
Some patch completely broke pet aggro; alas when someone in group had a pet out it would out aggro any other class. It was plain out annoying to everyone, tanks complained they couldnt get aggro unless they used the root aggro work around and pet classes were fucked cause their pets would get eaten by mobs in a whim and after that it was aggro roulette which could wipe groups. Everyone complained for weeks, pets werent casted in groups at all and SOE claimed... working as intended... ofc.
Then raiders said FU and started to exploit the pet aggro by charming zone mobs and have them tank in raids, resulting in disabling charm via hotfix instead of fixing pet aggro, which took another week or so to finally fix.
- 1
- 1
- 52,087
- 305,403
I remember getting Warhammer online with a couple of other friends and was so excited thinking it was going to be great. Then it turned out to be a giant pile of tragic shit.
They did have some decent ideas though. Like their lore book, the Scenario things, and PvP scaling to max level of the bracket. You do have to give Blizzard credit for at least stealing most decent ideas and adding them to WOW
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,904
- 6,889
Finally got around to reading this thread. Man did the I thought they were lost memories kick in, much more so than the EQ, I remember when thread.
Wasn't a part of FoH. But everyone on the bleeding edge back then followed Furor and tried desperately to beat him with world firsts, etc. We were focused on FoH (and the other top guilds), so much so, that by the time this rant happened our guild was two expansions ahead of everyone else on the server. We had all the candy, and all because we were just trying to keep up.
This rant (and all of Furor's previous rants), the warrior sit in, and everything else leading up to it was a huge part of what truly made EQ great - it was the players who were better than the game.
Trump! The MMO world is desperate. Make it all great again!
Wasn't a part of FoH. But everyone on the bleeding edge back then followed Furor and tried desperately to beat him with world firsts, etc. We were focused on FoH (and the other top guilds), so much so, that by the time this rant happened our guild was two expansions ahead of everyone else on the server. We had all the candy, and all because we were just trying to keep up.
This rant (and all of Furor's previous rants), the warrior sit in, and everything else leading up to it was a huge part of what truly made EQ great - it was the players who were better than the game.
Trump! The MMO world is desperate. Make it all great again!
- 2
Xarpolis
Life's a Dream
- 14,794
- 16,580
You could only forge the fire resistant plate and chain armor there that was purchased by having high enough Hydraxian Waterlords faction. I actually got mine to exalted for no reason other than it was something to do. Exalted happened shortly after BC came out, when I could duo all of Molten Core. As a prot warrior, I didn't have the DPS to take out Major Domo's group of healers solo. At least not when BC first came out.
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,726
- 2,616
Hah! I appreciate you quoting that just for the reminder that I was once referred to by one delusional everquest nerd as a "formal leader" of the warrior community and mentioned in the same sentence with Furor. That has to be the peak of my Everquest career and I didn't even remember it. I didn't realize that they finally took down TSW. I really loved that board. I don't think Furor posted there more than a couple times though.
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