GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

I think he means that she has only known about rezzes from thoros, but she knows the rez spell anyway.

Cad_sl said:

Thoros rezed Beric and Mel specifically took a trip to took to him about it.

Tyrion has done brave/stupid shit constantly. Fighting with the wild guys from the Vale to prove his leadership, fighting at KL to save the city when the Hound wouldn't. Just as examples.

So no, shark not jumped.

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I'll have to re-watch season two, as I don't remember Melisandre talking to Thoros about it. I guess that's what happens when you watch the show baked. Was Davos party to that discussion as well, because I don't remember that being the case, and without that happening it would be really odd for him to just straight up ask her if she can rez him..

As for Tyrion, he's done brave shit before, but usually out of necessity. Like the fight in KL was either grab the reins or die.. The act of arbitrarily deciding to risk his life freeing the dragons based on a feeling just didn't seem right.

Maybe I'm just being too sensitive now that I know there isn't source material to draw from, and looking for things where I normally wouldn't. It just seemed in both the incidents I mentioned they could have done a better job building some better dialogue and/or scenes to lend them weight.

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Game of Thrones - Arya Stark Handles Her Own - YouTube

I am curious to see how Brienne is going to feel about Mellisendre now after having rezed jon but still feeling the need to avenge Renly. Also Jon being Sansa's bro/cuz is going to add another dimension to Brienne's crusade.

Braen_sl said:

Spoiler

Varys wants the Targaryens back in power. He was working with Magister Illyrio to put it that way.. Why follow some disgrace kinslaying dwarf? Well... he would know if he is an actual Targaryen...

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The look on his face is nothing short of awe and respect when Tyrion does it. Very well acted. And I agree.

Tyrion has read up a lot on dragons, so I imagine he has read about how to approach them/deal with them/etc. Heck, in season 1 he is reading some ultra rare book on dragons that the Winterfell library had. He went to great lengths to show them he meant no harm: No direct eye contact, slow movements, soothing voice, removal of anything that could be perceived as a weapon, heck they may have even smelled Dany on him like a dog would. Missande telling him they didn't bug her much showed that they could at least identify friendly people.

I didn't think the Davos thing was all that far fetched. He basically says I have seen you give birth to a shadow baby, drink poison etc. Isn't there something your magics can do?

Astr0Chuk_sl said:

I think he means that she has only known about rezzes from thoros, but she knows the rez spell anyway.

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It's not a spell.

Thoros just said a prayer asking for the lord to bring back Beric in the scene.

Mel just said a prayer of their religion, or perhaps asked in valerian, I'll have to rewatch.

Davos asking was off, I'll admit. But once he did, for her to just think of thoros and his story, and then try her own ritual asking the god she has lost faith in to do this like thoros makes sense.

It's not like she did a DBZ fusion dance that had to be learned

Yeah that's the part that probably bothered me the most; using Davos as a plot device in a way that resulted in him not being Davos. He has always disliked Mel and expecting him to casually forget about the horrible things he's seen done with Stannis under her sway on the notion of bringing back to life a man he barely knows. If they had known this was the direction they were going to take a few seasons ago when he freed Gendry they could have planted a seed for it by having Gendry tell him about Thoros resurrecting Dondarrion.

They have a lot of plot points to hit and not a lot of time left. They don't have 1000 pages and a decade to figure shit out so they're letting plot dictate character actions. It's bad writing and it leads to a lot of out of character moments but I'm not sure I'd say the show jumped the shark yet, time will tell though.

Just along for the ride. We kinda knew this would happen. We'll get a more well thought out and nuanced version in 2050 when the book is released. For now we get to watch them blast through all the plot points and mass murder dozens of secondary characters.

Sylas_sl said:

yeah but why would he bring up resurrection? She's the one that knows magic. She's the one who has witnessed the power of real magic starting to return to Westeros. She's the one who's seen and talked to a fellow priest who has res'd a person 6 times. She knows it's possible, why would Davos even think of it? And if it's his idea, why the fuck wouldn't he have asked her to res his king Stannis Baratheon? Why does he give a fuck about jon?

I can buy the "fuck my king is dead. where do I go from here? What do I do now? oh shit what was that noise, lemme go investigate. Oh shit they just killed the Lord Commander, hey guys grab his body. Oh fuck we're trapped in here, guys they are probably going to kill us, let's not open the door" But I can't buy his instant devotion to Jon and his first thought being "oh you can maybe resurrect him or something?

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yeah, davos was probably Mel's biggest enemy after his son died, then he was sent away because he suspected something was going to happen to shireen and he knows how much mel likes her some king's blood sacrifices. it doesnt make any goddamned sense. anyone but davos the scene would work fine.

Sylas_sl said:

Yeah the "yo bitch you can haz res?" was weak writing, no doubt. Not sure how much of it is just "Man I had this idea in my mind on how they were going to do it" vs grrm hasn't put something to paper for them to adapt.

I saw it going down differently, sure. I figured there would be a crisis of faith moment, that's what we saw at the end of the first episode when she let her glamour drop and just looked defeated. Then I imagined her doubling down, refusing to accept that her life had been a lie, and her deciding that her visions were not wrong, she had to bring him back to life to justify and renew her faith. I imagined davos reluctantly going along with her plan, him and the loyal NW guarding the corpse to prevent it from being burned. I saw her needing the ritual to work, just breaking down, in tears, beating on his chest to force it to happen to no avail. Then you cut to davos looking at tormund like "wtf this was hopeless" and her looking just utterly defeated, whispers the "please, work" and then just as they are about to give up he springs back to life.

I kinda give them a pass for now. They know how it's supposed to end up, so hopefully they know where they are going. Once the season is over we can look back and bitch about how it could of been done differently, or whatever. Maybe davos finds out she burned shireen, and before john stumbles out and they realize the res worked, him and the wildlings execute the red woman? who knows.

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Why don't you call up GRRM and tell him you're willing to ghostwrite the final books for him since your ideas are so super awesome? That way, you could get the sand out of your vagina and you'd be able to once again tell everyone at the water cooler "the books are so much better."

wtb [96% click res] pst red priest/priestess

It's not about Davos having developed some sort of instant man crush on Jon, nor is it about him now forgiving Mel of all of her past transgressions. It's about Davos being fully aware that Jon is his only real chance to not only defeat the traitorous assholes who killed his king, but to rally support against the oncoming invasion of the White Walkers. What other choices does he have? The Red Woman is broken and defeated. She admitted that everything she had done to that point was horse shit. Why not play on her guilt and her failures to at last push her to do something useful and honorable in Davos's mind?

And is it really a big deal he that he knows rezzing may be possible? Gendry could have mentioned it to him off screen. Mel could have explained it to Stannis who mentioned it to Davos. It could have been mentioned by one of Stannis's troops who accompanied her to capture Gendry. Red Priests/Priestesses having that power could be a common rumor. Who cares?

Debase_sl said:

She has no reason at all to believe that Jon Snow has king's blood in him at all though? I just assumed she was doing the ritual as best she could guess based on her understanding of other magic that she is more familiar with.

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At the very least, Stannis believed Jon to be a Stark, and they were kings in the north at one point. (And obviously quite recently, Robb was King and he was at least a brother.)

Melisandre seemed to know more, saying that he has a power in him and needed to embrace it. I don't know if she knows his actual parentage, but I think there's enough there to assume "royal blood" that she is fond of using for her spells.

Jozu_sl said:

I think Mereen is a necessary evil. When you look at the grand scheme of things, Dany had to have a maturation period. Martin knew he couldnt have her find redemption so swiftly, as the entire story revolved around her and her dragons. If she would have peaked in the middle of book 4 or something, the story wouldnt have had the longevity it needed to really have that all encompassing impact.

He could of had her conquer the entire Essos hemisphere, or perhaps had her rule pathetic subjects at Drogos side. Maybe even landfall in Westeros but struggle to consolidate power etc. But he chose a certain narrative to support his grand design later in the game. She had to learn how to deal with people and develop as a leader. Mereen was merely a vehicle for this to take shape. If Danys story was expediated forward it would have extinguished a ton of Westeros intrigue and story lines that unfolded instead of developing organically while she gathered support and resources in Essos.

It might seem like an excuse but Mereen is simlply there to lend weight and credence to Dany as a character, but sadly it takes away those very things to a lot of people because they feel like the Mereen narrative is a waste of time.

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In the book, I think there's an actual quote from Dany saying she is going to "Stay, rule and be a queen." Like I think it's specifically mentioned that she needs to learn to rule a city before she can think about conquering kingdoms.

Quaid_sl said:

Who else has even tried to interact with them in the way Dany and Tyrion have?

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Brown Ben was well liked by her dragons; he says he has targaryen blood in him when an ancestor married a dragon princess.

As for the episode itself:

I'll be honest, I'm super fond of the understated resurrection. It puts more emphasis on Jon being alive than the fact that he was resurrected. By that I mean most of us assumed he would find some way to come back; it was easier to figure it out in the book because we had so many examples of people cheating death, and in the show not so much. (Thoros rezzing is mentioned, but we don't get major glimpses of say, warging saving people and obviously not LSH.) But when you put him alongside others who had died in grandiose ways, Jon was maybe the only one whose story wasn't "done". It made so much sense that he came back, that him showing up in a burning pyre would have been so god damn cliche. The fact that they try to rez him and you go, Oh well here we go. THEN it doesn't work, then dude just comes up coughing for air? Yea, that was way better.

Ramsay/Roose - That went as expected. I figured the child being born would come into it, and as soon as Roose got close to Ramsay and reaffirmed Ramsay's position, I was like, bitch you are so dead. It just played so false. "Ramsay, I swear on me mum you're still my favorite. For real though."

As far as Davos asking Mel, it did play a bit false, but I think that it's passable because 1) They've used so many god damn shitty writing attempts to connect the dots already that this is the smallest sin and 2) Davos at this point has seen his son accept Mel's religion, and has, in the past, urged Stannis and others to ally with the Starks for the good of the realm. Stannis respected Jon, and both Stannis and Jon knew that the realm needed to be allied to defeat the true threat. I don't think it's too big of a leap to think that Davos could see Jon as being the only potential person to do what Stannis would have done, and possibly the only person with a claim to do so. He's seen some crazy ass shit go down with Mel; it might have been a desperate reach but I could see him making it. Maybe in a "throw the dice, what do you have to lose" kind of way, but yea.

All in all though, shitty writing aside, I liked this episode because THE GOOD GUYS WON. I mean, other than Ramsay. I like Roose in a sort of Darth Vader way, and I liked his actor, but I was fairly certain I knew how that was ending. But the wildlings putting down the Night's Watch, Jon coming back, the dragons being freed, Arya (assumedly) passing her test, Sansa having a real plan, and Euron coming into the picture; (Is Victarion a no go for the show? I can't remember.) just, fucking, raking in the points for some of the cool shit that we hoped would happen.

It's possible you could fuck over every storyline but as long as Jon fucks up some shit after his rez, I might be able to forgive it.

(That is a lie, stop fucking up my show.)