Famm
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Gender Integration in the Infantry, and how Robots fight Misogyny
- Thread starter Eidal
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That shrimpy guy has to pass this test once a year no matter what he does in the Marines, not just infantry.
Eidal
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The bottom 5 percent of men for strength/size wouldn't be able to effectively move the biggest 5 percent. But the huge majority of men do not struggle doing fireman carries or drags even with a large weight discrepancy. I was slightly above average in the USMC for physical fitness and 6'1 205; I could easily drag/carry the 245+ fat fucks. My buddy, who was in phenomenal shape but smaller (160lb) could do so as well.
edit: my complaint about the CFT (the test in the above video) was that it paired men of like size for the drag/carry. That strays pretty far from actual combat conditions, but I don't have a good answer since the CFT is considered for promotion scores. It seems biased for me given my height/weight to call for randomized partners. Everyone knew that uselessly small man who bragged about his PFT/CFT when in all reality the guy wouldn't be actually capable of doing anything strenuous in the field, or god forbid, having to rescue someone. It's like: "Sure dood, 20 pullups is fucking awesome. You're definitely more than capable at moving your 145lb body weight. But...")
edit: my complaint about the CFT (the test in the above video) was that it paired men of like size for the drag/carry. That strays pretty far from actual combat conditions, but I don't have a good answer since the CFT is considered for promotion scores. It seems biased for me given my height/weight to call for randomized partners. Everyone knew that uselessly small man who bragged about his PFT/CFT when in all reality the guy wouldn't be actually capable of doing anything strenuous in the field, or god forbid, having to rescue someone. It's like: "Sure dood, 20 pullups is fucking awesome. You're definitely more than capable at moving your 145lb body weight. But...")
Eidal
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The perception is that combat experience leads to better promotions to the upper echelons (Colonel-General). This may be true, and it does make sense. I don't have a good answer other than "life isn't fair."
Note: No one I know has actually met a woman that wants to be infantry. It's a very very vocal yet small minority arguing for the optionfor other women.
I liked the CFT better than the PFT as an actual marker of physical fitness though. I felt that you should be able to pick up your own weight well enough, a lot of us could have done more and some might have been able to do less but with our height and weight standards what they were you most likely weren't going to pick up too many people that were huge.
Chukzombi
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i imagine that would make things exponentially harder, but perhaps they can at least save the shrimpy marines? i dunno, just seems like the marines are going out of their way to make a point that women are not as strong and capable as men. but since integration is likely to happen anyway, isnt there ways female marines can be accommodated without bringing down the males? perhaps sticking all the chicks with the smaller men for a start? im not trolling, though it feels like i am.
Eidal
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Obviously the answer is yes if we want to throw more money at it. That's really what this comes down too -- are the taxpayers happy with letting women pursue their dreams of being an infantrywoman even if they cost exorbitantly more due to failures in training and injury. Not to mention the difficult-to-quantify issue of pregnancy and sexual assault. Obviously, it will happen and it will be expensive both fiscally and in the mental damage done. The big issue, though, is taking care of busted servicemembers in perpetuity; my sister didn't produce an iota of work for the Marine Corps. She was injured in some way for the extent of her 2 years (that's how long it took them to finally medically separate her.) Now she collects a fat check for the rest of her life (she is 23).
Essentially, is full integration possible? Yes. Will we still be combat effective? Probably, just not as much. Will we pay substantially more. Yes.
Imagine being told that you finally became a Marine and you would be assigned to the coed platoon because you are small enough ...
Yeah Astr0creep that isn't going to happen.
Yeah Astr0creep that isn't going to happen.
Cad
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Lendarios
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This study showed that itcantbe integrated Without bringing down the males.
Females doing "special projects" is not outside the realm of possibility. If you don't think we don't have badass female spies and stuff like that you are delusional. Having them be part of a normal combat unit like you have in the Army/Marines is not going to work out though.
You have to make exceptions for them and you have to plan the mission to use them for a definite need. You can't just have them as part of a group. You absolutely need to be sexist when planning to use them as a resource. Need into this female only area? Need to distract this dude? Need someone small enough to fit through this hole? Need someone light enough for this ultralight plane? Need someone to blend in because they aren't expecting a female to be special forces?
You have to make exceptions for them and you have to plan the mission to use them for a definite need. You can't just have them as part of a group. You absolutely need to be sexist when planning to use them as a resource. Need into this female only area? Need to distract this dude? Need someone small enough to fit through this hole? Need someone light enough for this ultralight plane? Need someone to blend in because they aren't expecting a female to be special forces?
Eidal
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See, for stuff like that, it's just smoke and mirrors. I don't think anyone in the SEAL community genuinely believes that a woman will make it through selection. Zero out of 27 women have passed the USMC Infantry Officer's Course and that's the basic course that all infantry/intel officers have to do. It's not easy but the attrition rate for men isn't that high -- compare and contrast to how many people try out for special warfare operator billets yet actually get selected.
Keep in mind that those 27 women were likely in the top 1 percentile for strength/speed among women.
Chukzombi
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they have different weight classes for different size boxers. i dont see what the problem is. it actually sounds more efficient and would improve your chances for survival if everyone in your platoon was about the same size as you.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Yea I bet all the men would love to tell their friends that they are a Marine and that they're in the bitch unit.
As a former Marine platoon Sergeant I've seen plenty of men who couldn't make it in the infantry. When I was in they started doing this testing with woman and seeing if they could make it in the infantry. Not all men are cut out for it and even more woman aren't cut out for it. That doesn't mean woman can't cut it. I would of had no issues with training woman who were legitimate contenders for making it. I just wouldn't want them to start dumping any ole female who wanted to get into the military onto the infantry. It's tough for people in good shape and are young men who actually want to do that job.
We actually used to carry heavy weapons on forced marches along with the 81MM mortar tube. The Marines have since quit carrying those type of things on training marches. There was no comfortable way to carry anything weighing 50-75 plus pounds on your shoulders along with all your other gear and a rifle slung across your shoulders. Even those who weren't in the heavy weapons platoon had to step in and carry some of the weight. When one person shares the pain of another the bond you build as a unit is unbreakable. To this day I still keep up with the guys I had under me and would do anything for them if asked. It's hard to explain but the bonds you build are closer then blood. Just a little insight for those who never served in an infantry unit/military.