General Gaming News and Discussion

Abigailicious

Abigailicious

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Big Phoenix said:
Yes. People are too stupid to realize these fines are nothing more than a expected expense to these companies.

Until the cost of getting caught outweighs the reward for being a criminal/grifter, this will continue to happen.
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Imagine an actual administration that put us actual people ahead of vile corporations:

"Oh, EA, you are using gambling mechanisms in sports games sold to children."
"This is illegal, immoral, and you have commited this crime against tens of millions children. Literally."
"So if we put street gangsters in prison for a few years for illegal dice games, where do you think are going?"
"That's right, felony prison for life without parole. With complete asset forfeiture and the end of your illegal gambling racketeering operation."

Sounds like a fantasy, but history can turn on a shadow and memories are long and pitiless.
 
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Mist

Mist

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Abigailicious said:
Imagine an actual administration that put us actual people ahead of vile corporations:

"Oh, EA, you are using gambling mechanisms in sports games sold to children."
"This is illegal, immoral, and you have commited this crime against tens of millions children. Literally."
"So if we put street gangsters in prison for a few years for illegal dice games, where do you think are going?"
"That's right, felony prison for life without parole. With complete asset forfeiture and the end of your illegal gambling racketeering operation."

Sounds like a fantasy, but history can turn on a shadow and memories are long and pitiless.
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Slopes have gotten very slippery lately. Government starts regulating video games and you won't like where it ends up.

Weird that I've gotta explain this to the "small government" people.
 
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nu_11

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Mist said:
Slopes have gotten very slippery lately. Government starts regulating video games and you won't like where it ends up.

Weird that I've gotta explain this to the "small government" people.
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Children are off limits
 
mkopec

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There is a difference between regulating video game content and the way video games are SOLD and MONETIZED. Now im sure govt would jump at the chance to regulate itself some content, but thats not what were asking about here misty. They do need to do something about the predatory BS going on in selling games and content and all that BS...
 
Mist

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mkopec said:
There is a difference between regulating video game content and the way video games are SOLD and MONETIZED. Now im sure govt would jump at the chance to regulate itself some content, but thats not what were asking about here misty. They do need to do something about the predatory BS going on in selling games and content and all that BS...
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I mean, clearly they are doing something, since we're already talking about a half a billion dollar fine.
 
Mist

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The real issue is that it would be very hard to write legislation that affects COD and Fortnite skins but doesn't also make running a digital TCG effectively illegal and doesn't stifle innovation with regards to any existing games or future games with digital objects that have real-world value.
 
mkopec

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How bout we just go back to the way it was for decades before. You pay once for a video game. If you have content coming out on a regular basis, charge a monthly or bi monthly fee. Or just charge a fee for the damn content you are adding. There is no need for loot boxes, or predatory BS gambling being added to these games to reach into peoples pocketbooks for hundreds if not thousands of dollars to buy CHANCES at some pixels. This has been an isue with phone games for a while now but its now rearing its ugly head in the PC and Console markets now too.

This industry makes plenty of money. Billions and Billions every year. in 2021 $180.3 billion in fact. There is no excuse for them to be using shady skinner boxes to siphon off even more.
 
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mkopec

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Mist said:
The real issue is that it would be very hard to write legislation that affects COD and Fortnite skins but doesn't also make running a digital TCG effectively illegal and doesn't stifle innovation with regards to any existing games or future games with digital objects that have real-world value.
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There cannot be digital items in games with real world value if its not regulated in some way. What is to stop the devs making copies of the said items and selling them on the black market for an example? Like was happening in EQ and its emulated cousins? What sets the value of those goods? The scarcity of them being controlled by the devs? With their core is to make more money??This is dumb. And it does not stifle any sort of innovation. Just sounds like more pay to win BS here which is hated by nearly ALL gamers. Why would you ant to play a game where the outcome is determined by how lucky you get with a roll or how much whaling you do to finally get that item, card, whatever to drop?

I know this is not a digital good, but take a look at the documentary about the McDonalds monopoly game and how that was subverted by one smart dude to make millions.
 
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Mist

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mkopec said:
How bout we just go back to the way it was for decades before. You pay once for a video game. If you have content coming out on a regular basis, charge a monthly or bi monthly fee. Or just charge a fee for the damn content you are adding. There is no need for loot boxes, or predatory BS gambling being added to these games to reach into peoples pocketbooks for hundreds if not thousands of dollars to buy CHANCES at some pixels. This has been an isue with phone games for a while now but its now rearing its ugly head in the PC and Console markets now too.

This industry makes plenty of money. Billions and Billions every year. in 2021 $180.3 billion in fact. There is no excuse for them to be using shady skinner boxes to siphon off even more.
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The mobile market would probably make 0 dollars if it wasn't for using shady skinner boxes. A whole industry would be basically gone overnight.
 
mkopec

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Mist said:
The mobile market would probably make 0 dollars if it wasn't for using shady skinner boxes. A whole industry would be basically gone overnight.
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Well its maybe time to discuss some other ways they can make money other than skinner boxes then, right? How bout if you want to play this game you have to pay for it.
 
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Mist

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mkopec said:
Well its maybe time to discuss some other ways they can make money other than skinner boxes then, right? How bout if you want to play this game you have to pay for it.
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I don't like the mobile gaming space either but "I don't like it, therefore ban it" sure is capital D Democrat thinking.

The slippery slope argument still stands, once you empower any federal agency with regulating any aspect of video games, it won't be long before they're regulating all aspects of video games.
 
mkopec

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Mist said:
I don't like the mobile gaming space either but "I don't like it, therefore ban it" sure is capital D Democrat thinking.

The slippery slope argument still stands, once you empower any federal agency with regulating any aspect of video games, it won't be long before they're regulating all aspects of video games.
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Nahh you see, misty, like 90% of the mobile market are not games at all, they are thinly disguised skinner boxes, that is all. You make a good game and people will buy it and play it. There are tons of examples of one dude making a game that becomes a phenomenon of its own. See tetris, (pre cell phone) or Minecraft, or any of the other real games that were actual games not "gaming" into your pocketbook.

I just hate to see parents getting their credit card statements and realizing the kid spent $5000 on what they thought was an innocent phone game. And this is not a rare occurrence either.

Also to add I would hope these game companies would self regulate and actually use some typpe of morality when making them and monopolizing them. But sadly this is not the case and especially when we now have other nations doing the same like China, S Korea and others that have no qualms about taking all of your moneys.
 
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Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Mist said:
The real issue is that it would be very hard to write legislation that affects COD and Fortnite skins but doesn't also make running a digital TCG effectively illegal and doesn't stifle innovation with regards to any existing games or future games with digital objects that have real-world value.
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What a shame to miss on how companies innovating ways to fuck us in the ass. We already pay more now for less content and freedom of use of said content than ever before.
 
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Mist

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mkopec said:
I just hate to see parents getting their credit card statements and realizing the kid spent $5000 on what they thought was an innocent phone game. And this is not a rare occurrence either.
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"Parents can't control their kids, therefore government should get involved" is also capital D Democrat thinking.
 
mkopec

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Said by someone with no kids. It literally takes 30 minurtes for you kid getting a hold of your phone and raking that $5000 up no problem. Its not about kid control, its about predatory game companies with thinly veiled non regulated casinos that dont even have to pay anything out, just collect.
 
mkopec

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Big Phoenix said:
What a shame to miss on how companies innovating ways to fuck us in the ass. We already pay more now for less content and freedom of use of said content than ever before.
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Exactly. Make a good fucking game and people WILL pay for it to play it, simple as that. Somehow this industry got off its rails, probably when they discovered they can pilfer millions of dollars from suckers with just a interface to sell chances at pixels and nothing more.

So now its not about the games anymore its how to pilfer as much money from them before they realize. this has nothing to do with games anymore. But hey, they are all free to play!
 
Mist

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Big Phoenix said:
What possible innovation is there to be had in how a companies can fuck us in the ass harder with how we pay for content?
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(I'm going to use the term "NFT" below very loosely, a stand-in for a future implementation of secure, verifiable, tradable digital objects that's significantly better than the implementation associated with NFTs we have now.)

You could make NFT-based games where you can buy/sell/trade the objects without requiring the company's servers.

You could make all purchased in-game content, heck, even the game licenses themselves, NFTs, therefore giving the player the ability to resell anything they purchased. You could do this with digital music and movies as well, giving the purchaser the right of resale. All in-game content would therefore effectively become a resellable collectible.

You could make an NFT-based TCG or collectible miniatures game such that, even if the company goes out of business and takes the servers offline, you still own the digital objects and could theoretically stand up your own servers that use those objects in a similar fashion.

Think about it this way. If WOTC went out of business tomorrow, anyone who owns paper Magic cards could still play MTG FOREVER. Their kids could play with them long after they're dead. However, the same is not true for either of WOTC's digital incarnations of Magic. A properly implemented NFT-like solution could make digital objects have the same legal qualities as physical objects. It would also solve for mkopec mkopec 's weird edge case of a developer selling digital goods from their own game on the black market.

Innovation could actually be good.
 
Falstaff

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mkopec said:
Said by someone with no kids. It literally takes 30 minurtes for you kid getting a hold of your phone and raking that $5000 up no problem. Its not about kid control, its about predatory game companies with thinly veiled non regulated casinos that dont even have to pay anything out, just collect.
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Talk about some shitty parents
 
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Big Phoenix

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mkopec said:
Exactly. Make a good fucking game and people WILL pay for it to play it, simple as that. Somehow this industry got off its rails, probabaly when they discovered they can pilfer millions of dollars from suckers with just a interface to sell chances at pixels and nothing more.
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The fundamental issue is what we enjoy and the system that created what we enjoyed makes little sense in 2022 and beyond. From a financial/business standpoint making actual content isnt worth while to companies when they can churn out barebones games for nothing and charge $10-20 a cosmetic for said barebones game then rake in literal billions.

We had a nice thing, but that nice thing is all but dead.
Mist said:
(I'm going to use the term "NFT" below very loosely, a stand-in for a future implementation of secure, verifiable, tradable digital objects that's significantly better than the implementation associated with NFTs we have now.)

You could make NFT-based games where you can buy/sell/trade the objects without requiring the company's servers.

You could make all purchased in-game content, heck, even the game licenses themselves, NFTs, therefore giving the player the ability to resell anything they purchased. You could do this with digital music and movies as well, giving the purchaser the right of resale.

You could make an NFT-based TCG or collectible miniatures game such that, even if the company goes out of business and takes the servers offline, you still own the digital objects and could theoretically stand up your own servers that use those objects in a similar fashion.

Think about it this way. If WOTC went out of business tomorrow, anyone who owns paper Magic cards could still play MTG FOREVER. Their kids could play with them long after they're dead. However, the same is not true for either of WOTC's digital incarnations of Magic. A properly implemented NFT-like solution could make digital objects have the same legal qualities as physical objects. It would also solve for mkopec mkopec 's weird edge case of a developer selling digital goods from their own game on the black market.

Innovation could actually be good.
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I knew thats exactly what you where hinting at with innovation.

NFTs will never play out like that. Companies that create marketable IPs are never going to let their marketable IP be controlled by the "free market". More importantly NFTs do not work that way and will never work that way as NFTs are literally nothing more than urls on the blockchain, not actual tangible data.
 
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