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Mist

Mist

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Kaines said:
You simply swapped white useless for rainbow useless.
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Thanks for agreeing with me, that was my entire fucking point!

But yes, it actually did change the makeup of the top 20%. HR filters are bad, and recruiters are the laziest fucking people in corporate America. I've literally met one corporate recruiter I would consider a smart person in the past 10 years. By forcing the recruiters to take their blinders off (or changing the color of their blinders, whatever) it did make them go looking at more people and therefore sometimes accidentally hire candidates they wouldn't normally have looked at.

This is because a lot of candidates who look great on paper suck, and a lot of your best employees have shitty credentials but end up being great workers. This is because the entire stack is fucked top to bottom.
 
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Control

Control

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Mist said:
mostly white
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Shocked Family Feud GIF by ABC Network

Mist said:
Even a basic understanding of human behavior shows they're far more likely to give money to people who remind them of themselves. No one who works in VC or tech disputes this.
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Ok, so there's all this untapped talent out there that just can't get a fair shake in today's ultra-white-biased environment? Too bad that it absolutely requires massive VC investment to build a useful site/app/game these days...

1706218323015.png


Lucky he didn't have any idea how startups are funded I guess...
 
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Mist

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Daidraco said:
Now isnt it funny, that its the year 2024 and the only new players we've seen into the billion dollar club are from other countries? I wonder why that is.
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Because the top dogs had infinite low-interest, nearly free money from the fed to monopolize talent. This is the real reason for a decade of inflated headcounts at top tech companies - they were actively trying to starve startups and mid-tiers of talent.
 
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Mist

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Control said:
Shocked Family Feud GIF by ABC Network


Ok, so there's all this untapped talent out there that just can't get a fair shake in today's ultra-white-biased environment? Too bad that it absolutely requires massive VC investment to build a useful site/app/game these days...

View attachment 511101

Lucky he didn't have any idea how startups are funded I guess...
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Indie gaming (Lethal Company/Palworld) and tech startups (Uber) have nothing in common, both in distribution and in funding. This is an apples/oranges comparison.
 
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Control

Control

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Mist said:
Indie gaming (Lethal Company/Palworld) and tech startups (Uber) have nothing in common, both in distribution and in funding. This is an apples/oranges comparison.
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They have talent in common, which is what we're really discussing right? (in the gaming general thread nonetheless) Unless you're going to tell me that building Instagram or Snapchat is infinitely more complex and expensive than making a game, then yes, the talent is comparable.
 
Daidraco

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Mist said:
Because the top dogs had infinite low-interest, nearly free money from the fed to monopolize talent. This is the real reason for a decade of inflated headcounts at top tech companies - they were actively trying to starve startups and mid-tiers of talent.
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Wait, are you saying that MINORITIES dont have "infinite low-interest, nearly free money from the fed" currently? Because Ive seen the grants, I see the tax breaks.. Im pretty fucking sure that a minority could start a tech business a lot easier than a poor white MALE could at the moment. Hell, they even have DEI loans from conglomerate banks that white males arent privy to. Then those same minority business owners can hire strictly minority people they know, because their whole company is considered DEI approved. You know, rainbow nepotism. But no, we havent seen one of those companies pop up into the billion dollar club. Not a single one. Next you'll tell us they wont make it to that level because white males wouldnt do business with them.. right? Even though we've seen Chinese and Indian companies join this club outside of the US.

But really, the root of my agument was that from the 60's to the 2010's - the tech field started from nothing and grew into a globalized monster on the backs of "white males" that are just wastes of space. Only when women and minorities are thrown into the mix in the 2010's, do we start to see law suits break out left and right and the stagnation of the US Tech market.
 
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Mist

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Control said:
Unless you're going to tell me that building Instagram or Snapchat is infinitely more complex and expensive than making a game, then yes, the talent is comparable.
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Scaling Instagram or Snapchat is infinitely more complex, and expensive, than selling more copies of an indie game (which Steam just handles for you, taking their cut, a cut which generally shrinks the more copies they sell, so you actually get inverse scaling costs.)

It's even considerably more complex than scaling an MMO. Infrastructure wise, they're similar. But for an MMO you know who your customers are, the players. Your customers for Instagram or Snapchat are actually the advertisers. Scaling customer acquisition for a social media platform is therefore much harder and more expensive than scaling an MMO.
 
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Mist

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Daidraco said:
Wait, are you saying that MINORITIES dont have "infinite low-interest, nearly free money from the fed" currently? Because Ive seen the grants, I see the tax breaks.. Im pretty fucking sure that a minority could start a tech business a lot easier than a poor white MALE could at the moment. Hell, they even have DEI loans from conglomerate banks that white males arent privy to. Then those same minority business owners can hire strictly minority people they know, because their whole company is considered DEI approved. You know, rainbow nepotism. But no, we havent seen one of those companies pop up into the billion dollar club. Not a single one. Next you'll tell us they wont make it to that level because white males wouldnt do business with them.. right? Even though we've seen Chinese and Indian companies join this club outside of the US.

But really, the root of my agument was that from the 60's to the 2010's - the tech field started from nothing and grew into a globalized monster on the backs of "white males" that are just wastes of space. Only when women and minorities are thrown into the mix in the 2010's, do we start to see law suits break out left and right and the stagnation of the US Tech market.
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Animated GIF


We're not even talking about the same thing. You're comparing a small business loan for a few $K to a top tech company being able to get <2% loans for $billions to defensively hire anything that looked like talent to starve competitors, which is a thing they did the entire time loan money was cheap.

trump donald GIF
 
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Palum

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Hey has anyone actually met someone who saw Avatar 2 though?
 
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Daidraco

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Mist said:
We're not even talking about the same thing. You're comparing a small business loan for a few $K to a top tech company being able to get <2% loans for $billions to defensively hire anything that looked like talent to starve competitors, which is a thing they did the entire time loan money was cheap.
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A few thousand? Not in a related field, but one Im familiar with - a minority not only gets upwards of a 55% discount on buying a Ford Franchise, but also receives a government aid for minorities package up to 10% of the cost to own a dealership. Well Gahhhh Damnnnnn, Sally Mae! That sounds like a whole heapin' load of free help right there, dont'cha think?! Do you really think for a moments notice, that there arent programs available for well qualified minorities in the tech industry? Hell, even if we are talking about a few thousand, thats more help than ol' whitey is getting right now and they can code and host from their home. But thats expensive Draco!? Well not as expensive as you may think, because larger ISP's like Cox ALSO have a minority AND a low income program that can be COMBINED! Dont'cha just love all this equality up in the air?!?!

You can keep changing the subject about it being businesses or whatever and picking parts of the conversation that support your claim, but again - I'll reiterate that the industry was built on the backs of white men and you throwing them under the bus is your own self loathing hatred character flaw that you alone have in this conversation.
 
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Control

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Mist said:
Scaling Instagram or Snapchat is infinitely more complex, and expensive, than selling more copies of an indie game (which Steam just handles for you, taking their cut, a cut which generally shrinks the more copies they sell, so you actually get inverse scaling costs.)

It's even considerably more complex than scaling an MMO. Infrastructure wise, they're similar. But for an MMO you know who your customers are, the players. Your customers for Instagram or Snapchat are actually the advertisers. Scaling customer acquisition for a social media platform is therefore much harder and more expensive than scaling an MMO.
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Too complex for your legions of underappreciated DEI developers? I guess you can point at all of the DEI indie game successes then (since maybe that's easy enough for them)?
 
Big Phoenix

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Mist said:
No, the point is that most people at a company are borderline useless, or at least interchangeable. But if you just keep hiring from the same cluster of people who are all related to the useless people you already have, you will never accidentally find better people outside of that cluster. There is no evidence that being cajoled into looking into wider pools of people harmed companies. If DEI harmed growth or profits, it would show up in the data somewhere. What evidence we do have points in the opposite direction.
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How many people did Google fire last year?
How many people did Amazon fire last year?
 
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Mist

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Big Phoenix said:
How many people did Google fire last year?
How many people did Amazon fire last year?
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Every single one of these companies fired less than half the # of people they hired during the pandemic. Usually around a third, oddly consistent throughout the entire industry.

Also, most of them are still hiring. This is just a backlog of normal stack-rank turnover that was put off because they didn't want bad press during the pandemic.

Also, what is your point, exactly?
 
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Mist

Mist

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Control said:
Too complex for your legions of underappreciated DEI developers? I guess you can point at all of the DEI indie game successes then (since maybe that's easy enough for them)?
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My point is just that it costs a lot of money to scale something like Instagram, where it generally costs inverse money (costs go down the more copies you sell) to sell more copies of an indie game that doesn't require any centralized server infrastructure.

So, again, apples to oranges.
 
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Ossoi

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It's got nothing to do with mediocre white men -

The UK is 81% white.

The UK has had mass immigration since the 1950s from its former colonies (India, Pakistan, Jamaica, Hong Kong etc)

The first generation immigrants opened takeaways, restaurants, newsagents (Indians, Chinese, Pakistanis etc). All things they could do without knowing the language, needing an education or having connections. Jamaicans tended to do manual labour jobs.

Those first generation Indian/Chinese immigrants placed high emphasis on education, so the second generation became Doctors, Lawyers, Pharmacists etc. Jobs that don't require a network, just educaiton and hard work.

That is why the majority of the top C-level roles in the UK are held by white men. Because whites are 82% of the population and the third/fourth generation immigrant talent pool isn't there in high numbers to really be noticeable at the c-level. (Although arguably the early 40s Indian PM is an example of a second generation immigrant who has made it to the top)


The DEI religion says that if blacks are x % of the population then x % of CEO's should be black as well, or if gays are Y % then Y % of CEOs should be gay etc etc etc.

This just isn't a reliable target to aim at.


Factor in the women have different interests etc and you realise that the foundations of DIE are built on sand.
 
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Control

Control

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Mist said:
My point is just that it costs a lot of money to scale something like Instagram, where it generally costs inverse money (costs go down the more copies you sell) to sell more copies of an indie game that doesn't require any centralized server infrastructure.

So, again, apples to oranges.
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So you can't point at any tech products actually built from the ground up by dei folks eh? not even the easy kind? It's literally impossible because they need the approval of "white" men?
 
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