GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Soygen

Soygen

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Yeah, them not letting him pass makes perfect sense. Sure it's his sister, but if the theories are correct, she was in love with Rhaegar while Ned and all were fighting under the belief she was kidnapped. I really hope we don't have to wait until the final episode this season for the scene inside the tower.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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opiate82_sl said:
Yeah, but Robert would definitely kill the baby and as far as the Kingsguard knew Ned would turn over the baby to him.
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Ehh I think Ned's plan / actions would be the same regardless of if he had to kill the kingsguard or not- we know that the 6 he took with him where his very loyal friends/allies and would go with whatever plan/story Ned told them. The one guy is still alive and all these years no one has bothered to go ask the guy whats up?. I think they did a good job of having young Ned look sad / distraught as his friends just all got slaughtered for him and it made him off his game. So really it was all on the dumb kingsguard for being, whatever you want to call it- heroic, honorable bla bla.
 
Jozu

Jozu

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xadion_sl said:
Yeah, I never understood it... its not like Ned was going to go up there and kill his sister and or niece / nephew
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Yea but would Rhaegar really want his sole remaining heir to fall into the hands of one of the houses that just put an end to his familys reign? At the very least maybe they could have escorted the newborn out of the tower before the encounter but they probably were suffering from fog of war and were most likely under the assumption Rhaegar would return victorious.

But I do agree that honor and oathkeeping is for the very few and not the many.
 
opiate82

opiate82

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xadion_sl said:
Ehh I think Ned's plan / actions would be the same regardless of if he had to kill the kingsguard or not- we know that the 6 he took with him where his very loyal friends/allies and would go with whatever plan/story Ned told them. The one guy is still alive and all these years no one has bothered to go ask the guy whats up?. I think they did a good job of having young Ned look sad / distraught as his friends just all got slaughtered for him and it made him off his game. So really it was all on the dumb kingsguard for being, whatever you want to call it- heroic, honorable bla bla.
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Ned has a reputation of being honorable to a fault. Ned is also Roberts right-hand man and extremely loyal to him. It is entirely plausible for the Kingsguard there to assume Ned intended to turn Lyanna and child over to Robert and Robert most assuredly would kill the child, maybe even Lyanna should he discover that she was a willing participant in the whole thing.

We know with hindsight that Ned would not do those things, but in that situation the Kingsguard out there had no way or reason to believe that and had to assume the worst, and that they needed to protect the life of the potential sole surviving heir to the throne.
 
TJT

TJT

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The entire point of The Mad King's Kingsguard was that they were pretty much the epitome of knighthood. It subverts the concept of the True Knight. Arthur Dayne was a True Knight but served a King who, if he was anyone else, his own vows would have compelled him to slay.


So much so that they never helped the queen when The Mad King tortured her for sexual pleasure. But stood outside the room and just said, "it is not ours to judge him." While simultaneously standing by and watching why The Mad King (who everyone knew was crazy) burned Lord Stark and Ned's brother alive in the middle of the Red Keep for the crime of... wanting to find out what the royal heir had done with their sister.
 
dechire

dechire

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Just a thought that has probably been stated before but here we go...

... Robert started the rebellion not because Lyanna was kidnapped. Robert started it because he had a bruised ego and used the Mad Kings actions as an excuse. Lyanna wanted nothing to do with him as he's a drunken womanizing asshole? He didn't suddenly become this way he was always this way. He was talking about the rebellion and "making the 8" while at war and as a young man. That's not something Arya ... er i mean Lyanna wants anything to do with. When Rhaegar and her meet it's like true love. Since Arya... er I mean Lyanna is a free spirit she does whatever the fuck she wants and they hook up. Rhaegar being a super smart dude and the heir to the kingdoms does a bit of reading and makes a couple of conclusions A) he can take a second wife and B) his child will save the world from something other than the mad king. so Rhaegar and Lyanna run away together oblivious and uncaring to the rest of the world because they are IN LOVE. Robert finds out and gets fucking PISSED and starts saying shit like "SHE WAS KIDNAPPED!! That's the only thing that makes sense to my ego!!!" So Ned's father and brother are like "WTF, OH HELL NO. Lets go get our daughter/sister" and they set out to get her. When they show up and start demanding things to someone who is already unstable as fuck everything goes sideways. Robert goes ballistic and "LETS START A WAR." and starts making noise about this or that and about how Raeghar is the evil Targ that MUST die because he kidnapped and raped his lady love.

Meanwhile Rhaegar and Lyanna are boning, they get married and she is now preggers (twins?). So when Rhaegar gets the news his dad killed his wife's father and brother and that there is about to be a war he is motivated. He stations his most trusted Kingsguard to guard Lyanna against everyone and leaves. Rhaegar gets back to king's landing to get ready to go meet the Robert "man-child" Baratheon and put an end to this obvious rebellion but on his way out he tells Jaime "yeah this shits fucked up, I'm going to go handle this but when I am back I am putting an end to this Mad King fuckery."

And we know the rest of it.

So when Ned shows up they already know about what the rebellion has done to their friend Rhaegar's children. To them All the Targaryens had been murdered and yet here they are guarding their Prince's last remaining children. Ned is unknown to them but he is known to be BFF's with Robert who they believe ordered the murder of all the Targs. Ned isn't going to get a pass just because he's a brother.
 
hodj

hodj

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Think your timeline is wrong there. Aerys was killed towards the end of the war, not before it, wasn't he?
 
Khalan

Khalan

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I was under the impression the rebellion really started in full due to Brandon and Ned Starks Dad being burned alive. The Kidnapping sent them to KL, but the actual murders ignited the rebellion.
 
P

Picasso3

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Jaime L killed the mad king the same time ned looked like an 15 year old cousinfucker? Jaime must have been 7 when he killed him.
 
Arden

Arden

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I'm sure someone, somewhere has done up a pretty good history/timeline of Martin's world that goes into detail about this stuff. If anyone has a link, share it pls
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Jaime killed Aerys during the sack of King's Landing at the end of the rebellion. Would have been roughly the same time as the fight at the tower.
 
xzi

xzi

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It might have been posted, so sorry if it's a repost, but someone uploaded the behind the scenes from ep 1 & 2 this season that was on HBO Now. I've always loved their behind the scenes stuff

 
Breakdown

Breakdown

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Robert didn't start the rebellion.

Aerys killed the Starks, and demanded the heads of Ned and Robert Baratheon from Jon arryn. John raised the kids, and refused and called in his army to rebel. Ned rallied the north, Robert rallied his lands, they married into the tullys to cement them on their side. The only reason it was Roberts rebellion was because he was the only of the three with royal blood in him from the targs. Jon arryn started the rebellion, Ned was a much more important military leader, but Robert ended up on the throne. They really could have installed any house lord on the throne, but knew targ supports would fall in line more with Robert than someone else after the war. Outside of killing rhaegar, Robert could have been replaced, Stannis was much more important to the rebellion.

Without Jon arryn I doubt there is a rebellion. Ned and Robert were young and brash. No way that tywin, grey joy, and maybe the tullys would ever through in with them if it wasn't for Jon arryn.
 
Muurloen

Muurloen

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Littlefinger's brothels getting smashed by ISIS.... er Faith Militant doesn't help the chances for tits.
 
Brando

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The ToJ fight was probably some months after the fall of Kings Landing. Ned led the host into Kings Landing after the Trident and came to find Jamie sitting on the Iron Throne with Lannister flags flying in the city instead of the stag of Baratheon, if I remember correctly he remarked that they might have had to keep fighting right there. After seeing the rest of the Targ's were murdered and Robert was happy with that, Ned instead was angry about the murder of children and left alone to lift the siege of Storm's End. Only after that did he get to the ToJ, there's no way he did all of that in a matter of days.

In hindsight this also probably explains why Ned returned to Winterfell after the war instead of helping Robert rule the kingdom. From Lyanna he probably knew the truth about Rhaegar and her which Robert would never accept nor would he accept a living Targ. Since he's a terrible liar best to just remove yourself from anybody asking.
 
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