GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

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j00t

j00t

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about Aejon having a stronger claim to the throne... Varys, i don't think, was saying that he had a stronger CLAIM because he was a male, the impression i got was that the lords of westeros were more apt to follow male leadership. varys doesn't particularly care about lineage and rightful heirs if that person is going to be bad for the realm. he'll follow protocol while he works from the inside to replace that person with a better monarch.

varys was fine with robert's rebellion because aerys was insane, and out of everyone robert was the best chance for peace, and he was at the time. it was "peaceful" while he was king, but robert just had no head for the day to day management of a kingdom. the kingdom was in debt by... did the show ever say exactly how much? they owed casterly rock like 3 million gold or some such? they owed the bank even more... and obviously varys saw how terrible joffrey was, so it made complete sense that he'd be looking for someone else to take the throne.

he wouldn't care how much or how little claim they had as long as it could be spun in a way that made it sound legitimate enough for them to take the throne. dany clearly has the charisma and willpower to rule effectively and despite the show never outright telling us the fundamentals of managing large amounts of socially different people, having the dothraki and unsullied as part of the same army and still following her says a lot. (logistically they are two very different peoples and have very different needs)

but monarchs who grow up as conquerors don't generally bode well when they get bored. obviously they never say this, but varys is dealing with the history of targaryan fever AND robert the conqueror who got bored (then boared, and therefor gored). they have DEFINITELY shown varys as concerned that the next ruler of westeros is just. then comes aejon. people love jon, people follow jon. he got the fricken wildlings to be best friends with the north. not by threatening them or conquering them, but the opposite.

now things become REAL clear to varys that there is someone that he can put on the throne that will rule justly, will ALWAYS strive for peace and will work hard for the commoners. and what's more everyone in westeros is TIRED of having queen cercei. everyone knows she's been the real power since she married robert. people don't want a manipulative queen, they want a strong king with a backbone who cares.

tl:dr, jon being male is important for the people, not for the sake of lineage
 
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j00t

j00t

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i LOVE how that one moment is all it took to turn the entire audience against jon. like, i get that a live action dire wolf is problematic and expensive, and you want to be frugal and make sure the money goes to the right places BUT GHOST IS THE GOODEST BOY WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS

also, they put that whole scene together SPECIFICALLY to shit on ghost. jon and sam: "YOU'RE MY BEST FRIEND" while ghost just... watches from like 15 feet away. then jon immediately looks over like, oh dang, sorry ghost.
 
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Goatface

Goatface

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j00t said:
the kingdom was in debt by... did the show ever say exactly how much? they owed casterly rock like 3 million gold or some such? they owed the bank even more... and obviously varys saw how terrible joffrey was, so it made complete sense that he'd be looking for someone else to take the throne.
Click to expand...
6 million, 3millon to Iron Bank

think Cersei paid them 10 million

there was a couple of theories that Cersei paying them off was her biggest mistake
as the Iron Bank was now free to support Danny or someone else
 
j00t

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Goatface said:
6 million, 3millon to Iron Bank

think Cersei paid them 10 million

there was a couple of theories that Cersei paying them off was her biggest mistake
as the Iron Bank was now free to support Danny or someone else
Click to expand...

yeah, i saw that and was hoping there'd be something more to it. i kind of got the feeling that the writers actually are pretty decent when they get the time to breath but (probably for budget reasons) the seasons have been getting shorter and shorter. i mean, i hope anyway... there's really so much more going on than just "is dany crazy?" it's kind of bizarre, the episodes we're getting this season are longer, but i feel like less is actually being shown.
 
Fucker

Fucker

Log Wizard
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Chukzombi said:
this is all down to HBO playing sinister music when Dany sees Tormund hailing Jon as a king in the great hall. they also had Varys say Dany is losing her mind. so even though Dany is still the same Dany we know and hated for 8 years who always burns shit down, now they decided she is crazy when she wants to do it this time. because white people
Click to expand...

The morale of the story is never stick your dick in a crazy aunt who likes playing with fire? Sounds like sound advice to me.
 
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Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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ive read the spoilers so i dont want to be a nostradouchebag, but keep in mind, 2 conversations were cut off last episode. one where Jon, Bran, Arya and Sansa were talking about the big "secret". the other was where Sansa tells Tyrion , "what if there's another..." there could be more going on here that we the audience dont know about. right afterward, Arya hits the road with Sandor and we never saw her tell anyone goodbye. its probably nothing, but bad writing. just note those things happening.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Lambourne said:
I can't rewatch it right now but someone definitely said something akin to "as a male he has a better claim", when it should just have been "as Rhaegar's child, he has a better claim". Doesn't seem too complicated; even if Jon was a woman he'd be ahead of Dany.

It's a minor issue in the scope of things, but it's just sad that they can't even get the details right on what used to be such a well written show, or worse, deliberately changed it so they could complain about this fictional world's problematic patriarchy.
Click to expand...

fair enough
 
Soygen

Soygen

The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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Chukzombi said:
ive read the spoilers so i dont want to be a nostradouchebag, but keep in mind, 2 conversations were cut off last episode. one where Jon, Bran, Arya and Sansa were talking about the big "secret". the other was where Sansa tells Tyrion , "what if there's another..." there could be more going on here that we the audience dont know about. right afterward, Arya hits the road with Sandor and we never saw her tell anyone goodbye. its probably nothing, but bad writing. just note those things happening.
Click to expand...
Nah, you're giving the writers too much credit here.
 
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Arbitrary

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
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j00t said:
i LOVE how that one moment is all it took to turn the entire audience against jon. like, i get that a live action dire wolf is problematic and expensive, and you want to be frugal and make sure the money goes to the right places BUT GHOST IS THE GOODEST BOY WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS

also, they put that whole scene together SPECIFICALLY to shit on ghost. jon and sam: "YOU'RE MY BEST FRIEND" while ghost just... watches from like 15 feet away. then jon immediately looks over like, oh dang, sorry ghost.
Click to expand...

Ghost saving Jon's ass and dying in the process could have been for the same amount of money. Jon would not abandon Ghost. It goes against his character and it goes against all the wolf / wolf pack metaphor sprinkled through the series.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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OU Ariakas said:
The books and show have had many themes about lineage and family traits being passed on. The whole first book came down to hair color of children giving away the paternity of the royal children. How is it so much of a stretch to question the sanity of the daughter of the Mad King?
Click to expand...

And her brother was also a power hungry cunt
 
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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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j00t said:
about Aejon having a stronger claim to the throne... Varys, i don't think, was saying that he had a stronger CLAIM because he was a male, the impression i got was that the lords of westeros were more apt to follow male leadership. varys doesn't particularly care about lineage and rightful heirs if that person is going to be bad for the realm. he'll follow protocol while he works from the inside to replace that person with a better monarch.

varys was fine with robert's rebellion because aerys was insane, and out of everyone robert was the best chance for peace, and he was at the time. it was "peaceful" while he was king, but robert just had no head for the day to day management of a kingdom. the kingdom was in debt by... did the show ever say exactly how much? they owed casterly rock like 3 million gold or some such? they owed the bank even more... and obviously varys saw how terrible joffrey was, so it made complete sense that he'd be looking for someone else to take the throne.

he wouldn't care how much or how little claim they had as long as it could be spun in a way that made it sound legitimate enough for them to take the throne. dany clearly has the charisma and willpower to rule effectively and despite the show never outright telling us the fundamentals of managing large amounts of socially different people, having the dothraki and unsullied as part of the same army and still following her says a lot. (logistically they are two very different peoples and have very different needs)

but monarchs who grow up as conquerors don't generally bode well when they get bored. obviously they never say this, but varys is dealing with the history of targaryan fever AND robert the conqueror who got bored (then boared, and therefor gored). they have DEFINITELY shown varys as concerned that the next ruler of westeros is just. then comes aejon. people love jon, people follow jon. he got the fricken wildlings to be best friends with the north. not by threatening them or conquering them, but the opposite.

now things become REAL clear to varys that there is someone that he can put on the throne that will rule justly, will ALWAYS strive for peace and will work hard for the commoners. and what's more everyone in westeros is TIRED of having queen cercei. everyone knows she's been the real power since she married robert. people don't want a manipulative queen, they want a strong king with a backbone who cares.

tl:dr, jon being male is important for the people, not for the sake of lineage
Click to expand...

Oh, yes, I didn't realize this was the line people were talking about. For some reason I thought an older show was being referenced. Varys' comment about being a male was absolutely about leadership and the loyalty of the people and not about how legitimate his claim is
 
j00t

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Arbitrary said:
Ghost saving Jon's ass and dying in the process could have been for the same amount of money. Jon would not abandon Ghost. It goes against his character and it goes against all the wolf / wolf pack metaphor sprinkled through the series.
Click to expand...

SHOWING ghost dying would have been more expensive, i think, but it's irrelevant. they didn't want to kill off ghost, but they can't afford to have him around. which, is silly, honestly... the whole conversation about money and story decisions happening because of a lack of it is just... it's goofy. if you're going to make a show where one of your main characters has a giant wolf as a best friend, and another main character with 3 dragons... you budget for it. it would be like if i made a star wars movie about the jedi order but then had to write up a bunch of reasons to not use lightsabers because it's too expensive.
 
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Hatorade

Hatorade

A nice asshole.
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This show went from beheading Ned and killing Robb/prego wife to "saved at the last second" bullshit hollywood tropes loves to do. It is becoming Dexter. At this point a better story would have been almost everyone dies, Night King goes to kings landing, wipes that smug from Cersei, touches the Iron throne , it shatters, and fade to black.
 
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