GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Falstaff · Apr 15, 2014

How long after this does Tywin die? Obviously in the show it'll be the end of the season but in the books it's fairly soon, right?

Tuco · Apr 15, 2014

Cybsled_sl said:
Olenna realizes that derpy Tommen is a lot more like her husband, Lord Tyrell. She basically runs Highgarden. Joffrey could have been coaxed to do certain things early on, but the power of sex would quickly fade and Marg wouldn't have had as much power. Tommen allows her to rule the kingdom if he can be dominated like Olenna's husband.

Lord Mace Tyrell is Olenna's son... Your point is correct though. However there are many reasons why Tommen would make a better king than Joffrey. Not only would Margery be less likely to wake up with a bolt through her neck but Tommen would just be a better king in general during peace time.

spronk_sl said:
Purple Wedding makes absolutely NO SENSE. Olenna poisoning Joffrey before Marge has a baby in her has the potential for Marge becoming worthless, it was complete plot-armor-luck that the Lannisters agree to marry Tommen to Marge, it seems more likely for them to say "fuck that shit" and marry him off to someone else, making Marge the Unlucky Queen for a day. Getting rid of Tyrion and Sansa is pretty worthless to the Martell's, they should be concerned with Tywin's power and Jaime becoming the Lannister heir, not fucking around with Tyrion. Olenna keeps implying she is super smart and cunning but that whole sequence was boneheaded and depended on too many people outside her full control, especially if she worked with Littlefinger.

I feel this thread has already established why the Tyrells killing Joffrey make sense. Of course Tywin will marry Margery to Tommen (and probably be glad Joffrey is dead). Of course the Tyrells are more empowered by Tyrion and Sansa being broken up/exiled.

The one thing brought up that's a good question is how easy would it have been for Oberyn to get pinned for the deed. That probably would have been bad for the Tyrells because they would have taken the brunt of any conflict with Dorne.

Raes · Apr 15, 2014

Tenks_sl said:
Bookbane iirc

LOL, right, I forgot about the book.

notafunhater · Apr 15, 2014

Eyashusa_sl said:
How long after this does Tywin die? Obviously in the show it'll be the end of the season but in the books it's fairly soon, right?

The "purple wedding" was actually in the first third of the book. Tywin dying is at the end. I suspect it won't be until episode 9, then 10 will be the invasion of the Wall by Stannis, or vice versa.

Crone · Apr 15, 2014

So I got a question to all you book readers. I haven't read the books, but love me some spoilers!! Lord Mace Tyrell, is that the bald guy who warned Tyrion that his whore lady is going to get killed?

And I feel like he's faded away quite a bit. I forget what season/episode, but I feel they were building up and he was invovled in a lot of things, every single episode, up to the point they showed for a brief moment that he had trapped in his room the man who emaciated him. Sucks to be that dude.

Then nothing.

So what's up with that?

Falstaff · Apr 15, 2014

notafunhater_sl said:
The "purple wedding" was actually in the first third of the book. Tywin dying is at the end. I suspect it won't be until episode 9, then 10 will be the invasion of the Wall by Stannis, or vice versa.

I thought Red Wedding was about the halfway point and Joff dying was like 2 chapters later? This is reason #92 why I should have reread SoS before this season...

Tuco · Apr 15, 2014

Crone_sl said:
So I got a question to all you book readers. I haven't read the books, but love me some spoilers!! Lord Mace Tyrell, is that the bald guy who warned Tyrion that his whore lady is going to get killed?

And I feel like he's faded away quite a bit. I forget what season/episode, but I feel they were building up and he was invovled in a lot of things, every single episode, up to the point they showed for a brief moment that he had trapped in his room the man who emaciated him. Sucks to be that dude.

Then nothing.

So what's up with that?

No. Lord Mace Tyrell is the ruler of the Reach. Varys is the bald headed eunech who you are referring to.
Varys - Game of Thrones Wiki
Mace Tyrell - Game of Thrones Wiki

I've always thought of Varys as being a bit of an unrealistic character. He has no real protection from all these different powerful figures and has secrets on all of them. I just feel like eventually one of them will figure the value he has for them is greatly outweighed by the risk of him knowing very specific secrets about them. Plus everyone knows he trades those secrets and won't hesitate to sell any of them out.

He's the yin to Petyr Baelish's yang but nobody really knows how dangerous and deceptive Petyr is.

Here's a quote from Cersei that attempts to justify Varys remaining alive, but it just doesn't sell me on the idea.

Cersei_sl said:
You think you're the only one he whispers secrets to? He gives each of us just enough to convince us that we'd be helpless without him. He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now. . .

Lenas · Apr 15, 2014

What about Cersei getting married off to Loras? Pretty soon she isn't going to have the power to do shit. Tywin will rule King's Landing until Tommen comes of age.

notafunhater · Apr 15, 2014

Eyashusa_sl said:
I thought Red Wedding was about the halfway point and Joff dying was like 2 chapters later? This is reason #92 why I should have reread SoS before this season...

You might be a little closer. Remember half the book deals with Tyrion in jail and the faux trial, so it couldn't have been too much later. Episode 8 is apparently titled "The Mountain and the Viper", with 9 and 10 not having a name yet on wikipedia. So 8 will be Tyrion's trial and the duel, 9 and 10 will be the battle at the Wall and Tyrion escaping in some order. Good stuff.

Sutekh · Apr 15, 2014

notafunhater_sl said:
You might be a little closer. Remember half the book deals with Tyrion in jail and the faux trial, so it couldn't have been too much later. Episode 8 is apparently titled "The Mountain and the Viper", with 9 and 10 not having a name yet on wikipedia. So 8 will be Tyrion's trial and the duel, 9 and 10 will be the battle at the Wall and Tyrion escaping in some order. Good stuff.

I'd hope they would conclude the battle at the wall this season and end with Jon being voted as Lord Commander.

Tuco · Apr 15, 2014

They've got their work cut out for them trying to make him being voted as Lord Cmdr convincing. In the books he's a badass, in the show he's a mewling welp.

Barab · Apr 15, 2014

Eyashusa_sl said:
How long after this does Tywin die? Obviously in the show it'll be the end of the season but in the books it's fairly soon, right?

Not real far off If i recall but I think the mountain vs cool badass takes places first then soon after the spider frees the dwarf who then does what needs to be done

BoldW · Apr 15, 2014

Eyashusa_sl said:
I thought Red Wedding was about the halfway point and Joff dying was like 2 chapters later? This is reason #92 why I should have reread SoS before this season...

Both events are in SoS, and timewise happen very close to each other. In the books, Jaime misses the wedding completely as he's still with Brienne on the way back and doesn't even have a hand until FFC. Joff's wedding goes on as soon as the War is over (red wedding). Pretty sure there were more than 2 chapters, though.

I'm guessing the producers will continue to hee and haw the timeline a bit while sticking in parts from different books. After SoS, I don't think we read about Tyrion until DwD, but surely they'll be adding his voyages into the story.

notafunhater · Apr 15, 2014

It could be the battle in 9, and Jon being voted in with Tywin dying in 10. Would fill it decently.

Sutekh · Apr 15, 2014

Barab_sl said:
Not real far off If i recall but I think the mountain vs cool badass takes places first then soon after the spider frees the dwarf who then does what needs to be done

?Jaime frees Tyrion.

Lenas · Apr 15, 2014

You guys have your timelines all fucked. Joffrey didn't die until chapter 60 in ASOS, out of 80 chapters. Tyrion was not on trial for half the book, nowhere near it. Tywin dies in chapter 77.

Ridas · Apr 15, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
I've always thought of Varys as being a bit of an unrealistic character. He has no real protection from all these different powerful figures and has secrets on all of them. I just feel like eventually one of them will figure the value he has for them is greatly outweighed by the risk of him knowing very specific secrets about them. Plus everyone knows he trades those secrets and won't hesitate to sell any of them out.

He's the yin to Petyr Baelish's yang but nobody really knows how dangerous and deceptive Petyr is.

Here's a quote from Cersei that attempts to justify Varys remaining alive, but it just doesn't sell me on the idea.

Thats a nice point. Some players of the game are being just stupid (Cersei), crazy (Geoffrey) or cold blooded (Balish, Tywin, Grandma). Why not just get rid of him? It is not a flaw in the books, but Varys is playing a dangerous game for sure. I guess not having a claim for the throne isnt that bad in Kings Landing.

BoldW · Apr 15, 2014

Ridas_sl said:
It is not a flaw in the books, but Varys is playing a dangerous game for sure. I guess not having a claim for the throne isn't that bad in Kings Landing.

Unless he's actually Rhaegar, who fled across the narrow sea and became a eunich-slave!! There are crazier conspiracies (maybe).

Ridas · Apr 15, 2014

Yeah, I bet Robert just let him go! "Good fight, brah. Have fun whatever you do."

notafunhater · Apr 15, 2014

I may be fuzzy on timelines since it's been a while. I went back and looked to clarify the events and it's closer together than I remembered.

Chapter 39, Tyrion - Oberyn arrives in Kings Landing
Chapter 52, Catelyn - Red Wedding
Chapter 56, Jon - raider attack on Castle Black, Ygritte dies
Chapter 61, Tyrion - Joff dies.
Chapter 65, Jon - Wildling attack on the wall begins
Chapter 72, Daenerys (last one across the ocean) - takes Meereen
Chapter 74, Jon - Stannis arrives at the Wall
Chapter 75, Arya - Hound "dies" and Arya gets on the ship to Braavos.
Chapter 78, Tyrion - He gets out and kills Shae/Tywin.
Chapter 80, Jon - elected as Lord Commander
Chapter 81, Sansa - lysa thrown from the moon door
Chapter 82 (epilogue) - Lady Stoneheart kills the Frey dude

Lots of stuff still coming, even if some of it is out of order.

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