GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

i started the books this november i had bought them (the first 4) back in the spring but didnt get round to them until sandy killed my old pc and all of a sudden i had time for reading again. glad i did. it was long enough since last season ended so i could still read the books and still imagine in my own head what the characters would look like. although tyrion and arya still make me think of their HBO counterparts. somebody with a small role like Jorah Mormont however in my head i picture him as Charlton Heston.

Drinsic_sl said:

Some weird information in this thread. The series was originally a trilogy, then it was six books (two trilogies linked by the 5 year gap), then it became seven when he scrapped the gap. It could certainly expand further, but it is currently planned to end at seven.

Click to expand...

If he keeps up the pace he set in that last book (as far as plot goes), he'll be lucky to finish it in 40 books.

Im sure anyone writing for a fashion magazine could finish what GRRM started. I find my self skipping entire paragraphs at a time because oh shit cersi changed into a blue dress. I mean there is no sense of right / wrong in the book. So anyone taking over could write anyway they choose. No character is safe, anyone can rise / fall to power. So just about any published fantasy writer on the market right now could finish the books. I mean hell, sanderson has probably already done so as a fun side project just for himself.

Royal_sl said:

To suggest that R.A. Salvatore might lay a finger on the GoT franchise is an extinction level event of an insult to the entire genre.

Click to expand...

Except Salvatore would be able to pump the book out within a year or two rather than 6-10 years that is GRRM.

grumblethorn_sl said:

Would be a pretty epic troll on everyone if salvatore did finish. That asshole never kills off characters, John Sno'urdan shall live forever

Click to expand...

Except Chewy!

so i finished aDWD tonight. it ended very well, but goddamn it, i wish they could have given a little more info.
so is Jon Snow actually dead? or is the red witch going to rez him? there seemed to be a lot of unresolved shit tied to his character to let him die like this. was Bran Stark trying to talk to him through the raven? why did his men decide to kill him instead of just voting him out? was any of that connected to Wun Wun killing Patrek? what about The Others? what about the wildlings at the wall? who would take jon's place?

Jon snow - If you re-read Melisandre's PoV she sees into the fire and its something like "Jon Snow had daggers around him, he was a man, then a wolf, then a man again". Pretty clear with that foreshadowing whats going to take place. If you read between the lines, it seems as WunWun or whatever his name is killing the guy was fulfilling the PTWP prophecy. Its all there:

1. The book constantly during Jons PoVs says "The boy must die so the man can be born"
2. Melisandres vision of Jon being a man, then a wolf, then a man again. Whenever she asks for AA she see's Jon snow.
3. Jon is presumably a targaryen, and the woods witch earlier in the series made the prophecy of Azor Ahai being from the line of The Mad King
4. He will wield Lightbringer at a time when cold darkness falls onto the world, this is the Others being at the wall at the current point of the book, and Jon has his Valyrian sword, fits nicely. My personal theory is Jon will be revived and Meli will realize whats up and sacrifice herself to Jon and he'll shove his sword through her heart and LB will be born.
5. The Stars shall bleed part of the theory - Ser Patrek with his surcoat/coat of arms being the Star, gets dismembered just before Jon is killed.
6. Jon has a dream earlier in the series where he fights the others with a flaming sword.
7. Jon's woundssmokewhen he is stabbed, while Bowen Marsh cries. Careful choice of words here from GRRM. This provides being being born of salt and smoke part of the theory.

Theres a few other ones, but thats all I got off the top of my head. Dany is a red herring for AA, shes essentially just Aegon the Conqueror reborn with titties.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

so i finished aDWD tonight. it ended very well, but goddamn it, i wish they could have given a little more info.
so is Jon Snow actually dead? or is the red witch going to rez him? there seemed to be a lot of unresolved shit tied to his character to let him die like this. was Bran Stark trying to talk to him through the raven? why did his men decide to kill him instead of just voting him out? was any of that connected to Wun Wun killing Patrek? what about The Others? what about the wildlings at the wall? who would take jon's place?

Click to expand...

Now you get to wait like the rest of us.

wow. i didnt catch all that. some of it yeah, but definitely never would have pieced it all together like that. good eye, man. i was more focused on the WTF of it all. one second hes doing his thing then the next chaos breaks out. what you said may be part of the prophecy of the return of the lightbringer, but i cant wrap my head around that his men would all turn on him so viciously like that. they didnt even try to vote him out or wait for him to leave the wall with the wildlings to save his "sister" before they retook the NW. and they barely gave us any Jaime that book. i guess brienne is going to try to kill him so she could save pod and the sellsword. but im pretty sure she has a crush on Jaime and wont go through with it. that storyline was a lot more interesting than the fucking harlequin romance book between dany and daario nohairio.
and where the fuck have Rickon, the wildling chick and shaggydog gone? i dont even remember what direction they went.

Lemmiwinks_sl said:

Dany is a red herring for AA, shes essentially just Aegon the Conqueror reborn with titties.

Click to expand...

When is she supposed to be anything but Aegon with titties? Seeing as the OG Azor Arhai didn't ride any dragons and Aegon didn't defeat the Others/etc. I think your #4 is interesting. Didn't the heart have to be from forger's true love? Could Melisandre stab herself for Jon?

She seems like a true believer.

Agree with the general assessment on Daenerys here, even through book 5 I loved her; but I also found her story weaker in general until the very end... which sucks, I genuinely like the character more than any other character in a book or screen.

Dany is commonly thought among many readers to be AA due to birthing dragons from stone among her salty tears during the red comet - the bleeding star. Not to mention some of Aemon Targaryens last words are telling Samwell that hes certain she is the PTWP.

Edit: And Lightbringer would be metaphorical for Dany's dragons, being born from her lover.
Double Edit: Remember, Chuk, in Davos' PoV, he's heading to Skagos on orders from Manderly because the mute Iron Islander followed Rickon and gang and saw them off.

Lemmiwinks_sl said:

Dany is commonly thought among many readers to be AA due to birthing dragons from stone among her salty tears during the red comet - the bleeding star. Not to mention some of Aemon Targaryens last words are telling Samwell that hes certain she is the PTWP.

Edit: And Lightbringer would be metaphorical for Dany's dragons, being born from her lover.
Double Edit: Remember, Chuk, in Davos' PoV, he's heading to Skagos on orders from Manderly because the mute Iron Islander followed Rickon and gang and saw them off.

Click to expand...

i remember davos being worried on where he had to go, but i dont think they said specifically skagos, im probably wrong. ive been sick all week and was reading this book between coughs.

wow. i didnt catch all that. some of it yeah, but definitely never would have pieced it all together like that. good eye, man. i was more focused on the WTF of it all. one second hes doing his thing then the next chaos breaks out. what you said may be part of the prophecy of the return of the lightbringer, but i cant wrap my head around that his men would all turn on him so viciously like that. they didnt even try to vote him out or wait for him to leave the wall with the wildlings to save his "sister" before they retook the NW. and they barely gave us any Jaime that book. i guess brienne is going to try to kill him so she could save pod and the sellsword. but im pretty sure she has a crush on Jaime and wont go through with it. that storyline was a lot more interesting than the fucking harlequin romance book between dany and daario nohairio.
and where the fuck have Rickon, the wildling chick and shaggydog gone? i dont even remember what direction they went.

Click to expand...

Rickon+Shaggydog are presumably on the Cannibal Island. There is a throw away line in the 4th book where they allude to that.

As for killing Jon Snow, you have to look at it from an impartial perspective: While the Nights Watch was charged originally with defending vs. the Others, since the Others have been MIA for thousands of years, the Nights Watch has instead been primarily at war with the Wildlings. So your mortal enemy, which you basically have sworn to protect against, is now suddenly welcomed into the heart of your base with open arms by a noob Commander who may or may not have been compromised by his time with the Wildlings (from the Nights Watch perspective). Wunwun (a giant mind you, which is essentially a monster to the rest of Westeros) then slaughters some d-bag knight, but a citizen of the kingdoms none the less, then Jon tries to defend the giant. That was the last straw in most of the men's eyes, which is why they did what they felt they had to do. The tears were important because it shows they really didn't want to kill Jon, but they felt they had to in order to uphold their oath/preserve the Watch.

i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?

Maester Chuk_sl said:

i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?

Click to expand...

Definitely didn't come from nowhere, throughout the last few Jon chapters, he's giving orders that his inner circle of commanders all seem to like less and less. Cyb drew a good picture of how it would affect these guys psychologically to have this young kid who was voted to lead start ordering them to do things that go completely against what they stood for over the past couple thousand years. The frustration was being shown clearly by all of them in his last few chapters.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

i still dont buy that even though thats likely exactly what GRRM wanted to come across as being the reason. just looked like it came out of nowhere, in these books this should have gone down, Jon sees wun wun fucking Patrek up, then orders nobody hurt him and the crows ignore jon, kill wun wun and capture/put jon under arrest and maybe he ends up dying in the struggle. the way it actually goes feels like it was a conspired plot. i dont have a problem with that, but if they had time to hatch a plan to bushwhack jon they could have called a vote to remove him. or just waited til he left for winterfell/hardhome and then just had him removed as LC.

question for lemmiwinks. if the red witch rezzes Jon is he still bound to the Black?

Click to expand...

No he is not bound to black due to his death as the boy, to arise the Man.