I also thought that when they found Dany she had her dragon with her (in the book anyways) and the implication was that she was a silver haired, purple eyed woman with a fucking black dragon in the middle of the Dothraki sea, so who the fuck else would she be?...
GoT is largely about political intrigues, and scheming, and subtle manipulation, and the strongest people often being the most underestimated. In the show, they've largely cut the legs out from under most of those themes. Sometimes it's necessary, but for example, Littlefinger in the show has kind of become a bit of a bitch and he's a god damn genius in the books.
That's really the only issue I have. Yea there are dragons, and lots of killing and naked women, but all of that is just there to cement the shit that the book is actually about......
I haven't read the books but yeah exactly, who the fuck else would she be?
Varys and Tyrion have been declawed, too =/
I think that' the whole looming problem with Game of Thrones. The elements that will make the climax, action and supernatural, are the weakest parts of the show.
Did Jaimie ever say fuck in the show before the most recent episode? I ask because his lines with Cersei seemed really crudely done.
No, the problem is the book fans won't shut the fuck up and just watch the fucking show without nitpicking every single god damn scene that isn't exactly like it happened in the books. Tell your boyfriend, Martin to get off his lazy fat ass and finish the story if you hate the direction it's going so badly.
Then go hang out in the non-book readers thread if it bothers you so much. It's going to happen the entire season so why aggravate yourself by hanging out in this thread if it bothers you so much?
it is pretty lame what they did to littlefinger too. in the books he pretty much owns half of westeros through deals and manipulation over the years. on the show he is just a shitty pimp. he just hands off sansa like its no big thing and goes along his merry way, possibly to whore out some more young girls.
What do you mean? In the show it makes it very clear he was the one who started the whole war. It also shows that he has a hand in almost everything that's happening all over westoros. I'm guessing because he wasn't around very much in the last 4 or 5 episodes you feel he has been gimped.
This is off topic but relevant to something that was said a couple pages back, but at this point I could really see Martin using the show as a means to gauge the direction of his book writing. I mean he gave these guys the "end" and basically said get to that point however you want. Hasnt he already adjusted some plot point because too many people theorized it correctly?
I don't know, for some reason he just seems like the kind of guy that would do this.
Yea, the majority who stayed were thus. But Drogo's bloodriders stayed, and when she gave them her bride's gifts (the weapons) they took them but said they could not stay as her bloodriders, that their duty now was to take her to Vaes Dothrak and then join their Khal in death.
It was actually quite clever in the show if you listened.
He gave Sansa to House Bolton as they wanted to secure their hold on the North. He then went to Cersei and said that Roose has appeared with Sansa (somehow!). This secured the Crown's backing over his indirect claim to the Vale as crazy Cersei wants Sansa back in KL to have her way with over Joffrey. He told Cersei that they would let Roose and Stannis fight, then go back up and take Sansa back. Sansa is completely unaware of this obviously and Roose knowingly agreed to rebel against the crown by marrying Sansa to Ramsay. He mentioned this in the episode as he scolded Ramsay for not realizing the threat they face. So he would "rescue" Sansa and she wouldn't even know that he was the one who knowingly created the situation for himself to profit from. That seemed like the idea anyway.
Without Sansa, Roose doesn't have the support of the North and the army of the Vale will still come and clean house.
There was also that scene where he says oh weak little boys don't last (Robin).
Pretty smart play really. Not sure why anyone would get the idea that Littlefinger is just a pimp. FFS, Varys outright tells Olenna Tyrell that he is the most dangerous man in Westeros.
Yes, he is, but he's not showing that by giving Ramsay Sansa.
LF makes a big point about knowing everything, but it's clear in the exchange he doesn't know about Ramsay's proclivities. Yea, we could say he's playing Bolton against Cersei, but what does THAT get him? Cersei didn't give him anything other than a promise, and it didn't seem like they were making it a big secret that LF gave her to Bolton. Bolton is, by far, the weakest player here. He didn't need Cersei's backing to get him out of Winterfell.
His plan also doesn't work if 1) Stannis doesn't take Winterfell or doesn't weaken it significantly and 2) Doesn't have the backing of the Vale.
By throwing away Sansa, he has neither. And what if Ramsay had killed her? Roose was pretty clear about how important she is, but we all know the power struggle between Roose/Ramsay is about to come to an end and Ramsay will likely be the victor. There is no way you put your link to two legitimate claims into the hands of the unknown. That's the biggest issue with it really; even if it comes out ok for LF, he had no idea what the end result would be of that deal with Bolton, and he did it anyways. Seriously not smart.
I think we're still tagging book spoilers, so just in case:
In the book, LF hides Sansa, takes her to the Vale. He pretends she is his bastard daughter, and his plans are to wed her to Robert Arryn's heir, then reveal who she actually is. At this point, the Vale would proclaim for her, and march to win her back Winterfell. This gets him the love of both the North and the Vale, and considerably weakens Cersei.
Playing Bolton against Cersei availed him nothing, and it put the biggest bargaining chip he has out of his hands - I absolutely cannot see that ever happening until Petyr got what he wanted.
Edit: And that death thing for Jon is the craziest thing I've ever read and I hope it's super untrue.
No, and he has specifically said he would not do this in the past. He did say however that he's decided to write in a twist that the show can't do, because they already killed the character the twist is based around. Most people assume Stannis or Mance.
I wonder if Ramsay might underestimate Roose's evil. Fucking Roose never changes his tone, it is always the same, the man is one chilling son of a bitch and I think the actor playing him is doing a stellar job. Roose knows exactly the monster Ramsay is, but I am not sure Ramsay understands it the other way around.
What do you mean? In the show it makes it very clear he was the one who started the whole war. It also shows that he has a hand in almost everything that's happening all over westoros. I'm guessing because he wasn't around very much in the last 4 or 5 episodes you feel he has been gimped.
its not just that. in the books he loved, LOVED Cat, therefore he loves Sansa, he would never ever pimp her out to be brutally raped by a monster like ramsay. he also lost a good chunk of his power by giving sansa up. she is the the north. show littlefinger, he brushes her off to her fate not to be seen again.
I wonder if Ramsay might underestimate Roose's evil. Fucking Roose never changes his tone, it is always the same, the man is one chilling son of a bitch and I think the actor playing him is doing a stellar job. Roose knows exactly the monster Ramsay is, but I am not sure Ramsay understands it the other way around.
Exactly. Ramsay is just a yipping little mutt. Roose was already bored of flaying people before Ramsay was off the teat. Ramsay has fun cutting off some dude's balls and hunting slaves with dogs, Roose massacres a wedding party and takes over the north. Ramsay plays games, Roose plays The Game. If the story stays true to form, the most evil of the two people will win, and I'm pretty sure that's Roose, not Ramsay. If Ramsay manages to kill Roose, it will probably be something similar to Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter, except that was full of poetic justice, Ramsay killing Roose would just be lame.
Exactly. Ramsay is just a yipping little mutt. Roose was already bored of flaying people before Ramsay was off the teat. Ramsay has fun cutting off some dude's balls and hunting slaves with dogs, Roose massacres a wedding party and takes over the north. Ramsay plays games, Roose plays The Game. If the story stays true to form, the most evil of the two people will win, and I'm pretty sure that's Roose, not Ramsay. If Ramsay manages to kill Roose, it will probably be something similar to Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter, except that was full of poetic justice, Ramsay killing Roose would just be lame.
Exactly. Ramsay is just a yipping little mutt. Roose was already bored of flaying people before Ramsay was off the teat. Ramsay has fun cutting off some dude's balls and hunting slaves with dogs, Roose massacres a wedding party and takes over the north. Ramsay plays games, Roose plays The Game. If the story stays true to form, the most evil of the two people will win, and I'm pretty sure that's Roose, not Ramsay. If Ramsay manages to kill Roose, it will probably be something similar to Tyrion shooting Tywin on the shitter, except that was full of poetic justice, Ramsay killing Roose would just be lame.
I mean, this would be sweet, but the dialogues between the two always make me sort of think that Roose thinks he has Ramsay under his heel. The ending to that is Ramsay lashing out at Roose, in a way that is unexpected. (Only to Roose though; I expect the audience would see it coming.)
I really do like Roose and the actor playing him, but Ramsay is such a loose cannon, I feel like he continues onward, not his father.
I mean, this would be sweet, but the dialogues between the two always make me sort of think that Roose thinks he has Ramsay under his heel. The ending to that is Ramsay lashing out at Roose, in a way that is unexpected. (Only to Roose though; I expect the audience would see it coming.)
I really do like Roose and the actor playing him, but Ramsay is such a loose cannon, I feel like he continues onward, not his father.
As usual, you start with a crazed idea, then you try to build every possible hint, no matter how ambiguous or maybe inapplicable, as a confirmation of your story. What I'd be interested would be the hints AGAINST that story. But I'm not going to obsess over every single page in the series (too many of them) to find all that contradicts that theory.
In addition, it's a square theory that doesn't fit in the rounded hole of the show, because a lot of stuff differs between the show and books regarding his setup (really, Lady Stoneheart? She's not even in the show).
Want my pet theory? Varys is actually R'hllor himself. Who else would openly mock his own priestesses, while placing all pieces to make sure Dragons are going to be delivered to his real champion just in time?
