Greece - A New Hope

Flight

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Not sure if you guys are getting any/much coverage of the elections in Greece but a radical anti austerity party has arisen and come just 2 seats short of a majority this week. The striking thing is that they have formed a coalition with a right wing party that has almost opposite views on many issues - but agrees with them on the need for an end to neo-liberalism unlike traditional left wing/Democratic partys, which are still driven by big money and the ruling elite :


Syriza had been expected to look to the centre left To Potami and officially socialist Pasok parties to give it a majority in the new parliament, where it holds 149 out of 300 seats. But Mr Katrougkalos said that both these parties were ruled out because of their commitment "to neo-liberal economic policies, favouring privatisations and the removal of laws protecting labour".
They've appointed a radical economist, who is anti elite, as their Minister for Economics :



New Greek PM Alexis Tsipras appoints radical economist to new government

Greece set to clash with EU as economics post goes to radical who described austerity measures as 'fiscal waterboarding'


Greece's new leftist prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, is set to announce his anti-bailout government, with the post of economics minister - chief negotiator with the country's international creditors - going to a radical economist who has described austerity programmes as "fiscal waterboarding". With Greece set on a collision course with Europe over the Syriza-led government's plans to reverse draconian belt-tightening and renegotiate the country's massive debts, Yanis Varoufakis, who calls himself an "accidental economist", confirmed in a radio interview that he would take up the key position.

The new Greek government, the first in Europe to openly oppose the draconian bailout conditions demanded by the European Union and International Monetary Fund, is expected to be unveiled and sworn in on Tuesday afternoon."This is happening today, we shall be sworn in later today," Varoufakis told Irish radio station Newstalk, when asked if he would be finance minister.
One of his top priorities will be to deliver on Tsipras's election pledge to renegotiate the terms of Greece's ?240bn bailout deal, despite widespread and sometimes forceful opposition from other European countries, led by Germany.

Varoufakis, 53, studied in Britain and has also taught in Australia, Greece and the US. In pre-election interviews he promised to end what he described as Greece's humanitarian crisis, slice a chunk off its ?320bn debt mountain, and destroy the country's oligarchs who "viciously suck the energy and the economic power from everybody else".
A prolific blogger and media commentator who dresses in brightly coloured shirts and jeans, Varoufakis - who has dual Greek and Australian nationality - abandoned a job at the University of Texas to join Tsipras's team in the election runup, and celebrated Sunday's result by paraphrasing Welsh poet Dylan Thomas, saying: "Greek democracy today chose to stop going gently into the night. Greek democracy resolved to rage against the dying of the light."

Syriza failed by just two seats to win an outright majority in Greece's 300-seat parliament and on Monday formed a coalition government with the small rightwing Independent Greeks (Anel) party.
Analysts have described it as an unnatural alliance and warned it might not survive long, pointing out that ANEL - best-known for vitriolic attacks on Germany and the Troika and for the occasional unashamedly antisemitic, racist and homophobic outbursts of its populist leader, Panos Kammenos - are unpredictable and that the two parties, while they agree on the need to end austerity, hold directly opposing views on many key social issues including immigration.

While the IMF said it was ready to continue supporting Greece and looked forward to discussions with the new government, the head of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, warned that a reduction in the country's debt was "not on the radar". The EU issued a stiff statement that Greece would risk its place in the eurozone if it fails to meet its austerity and debt commitments.
Syriza has promised to reverse many of the huge public-sector spending cuts and wage and pension reductions implemented by the previous centre-right government, but several eurozone countries made clear they thought its plans were unrealistic.

"In our view it is important for the new government to take action to foster Greece's continued economic recovery," Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for the German chancellor, Angela Merkel', said. "That also means Greece sticking to its previous commitments."

The British prime minister, David Cameron, was more conciliatory on Monday night, congratulating Tsipras and welcoming his "intention to tackle corruption and increase tax transparency across Greece".
But the UK chancellor, George Osborne, said Syriza's promises to voters appeared "very difficult to deliver" and "incompatible with what the eurozone currently demands", warning that any resulting uncertainty would have an impact on Britain.

Varoufakis has long criticised Europe's handling of the economic crisis, attacking the conservative economic orthodoxy that demands budget rigour and market-friendly structural reforms.
That approach amounted to "a cynical transfer of banking losses on to the shoulders of the weakest taxpayers", he said on his blog earlier this month. He has also likened the tough terms of bailout deals to "fiscal waterboarding" that risked converting southern Europe into "a form of Victorian workhouse".
New Greek PM Alexis Tsipras appoints radical economist to new government | World news | The Guardian


From the profile of the new Financial Minister :


John Maynard Keynes with a hint of Karl Marx is how one analyst described the self-proclaimed "accidental economist" who is now to become Greece's finance minister and a key negotiator with its international creditors.
With a typically literary flourish, he celebrated his party's victory by paraphrasing Welsh poet Dylan Thomas.

"Greek democracy today chose to stop going gently into the night. Greek democracy resolved to rage against the dying of the light," the Greek-Australian wrote on his blog.

One of the first two ministers to be confirmed by prime minister Alexis Tsipras, Varoufakis studied at Essex University and has taught in Australia, Greece and the United States.

In pre-election interviews he vowed to destroy Greek oligarchs, end what he called the humanitarian crisis in Greece and renegotiate the country's debt mountain.

"We are going to destroy the basis upon which they have built for decade after decade a system, a network that viciously sucks the energy and the economic power from everybody else in society
," he told Britain's Channel 4 television.
If only this could spread out from Greece.
 

Antarius

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Do you want WW3? This is how world wars happen.

Can't wait until russia comes to "liberate" their new communist pals.


That said, I too, am tired of earning the same wage that my dad did 25 years ago doing the same job. The rich are immensely richer, and the middle class has stagnated to nothing. Real estate continues to go up, because that's one thing rich people love investing their money in.

I don't think that this is actually going to change anything, but bringing austrian economists to poverty stricken countries has never turned out well for europe.
 

Running Dog_sl

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It's good that the Greeks are standing up for themselves, but unfortunately I think the following analysis is correct:

One can only admire Mr Tsipras for the tenacity with which he is taking on the eurozone high command, yet there cannot be much doubt about the ultimate outcome.As it currently stands, European monetary union is incapable of giving him what he demands- both the advantages of a German-style hard currency, and the freedom and fiscal flexibility of a conventional sovereign state. The moment Greece signed up to the former, it surrendered the right to the latter. The promise on which Mr Tsipras has been elected is therefore little short of a lie.

...This leaves the option of un-negotiated, unilateral default, a course of action which would soon lead to Greek departure from the euro.... As things stand, the European Central Bank is forced to provide lots of liquidity support to the beleaguered Greek banking system - some ?50 billion at the last count, a sum amounting to nearly a third of annual Greek GDP....Tax receipts have further slumped since polls began to signal a Syriza victory, making it more difficult still. Greece has also seen a renewed surge in capital flight, with some ?20 billion - more than 10 per cent of GDP - leaving the country since December.

the moment Greece starts to default, it will be denied further Troika support and, perhaps more importantly, ECB funding for its banking sector. Some two thirds of Greece's national debt is in the hands of other eurozone nations and the IMF, either directly or indirectly. If Mr Tsipras defaults, he'll be cut off without a cent.

...Denied euro funding, Greece would at this point be forced to print drachmas to fund both the banks and continued government spending. To all intents and purposes, Greece would be out of the euro. However it was done, the value of everything would plummet. It would be financial carnage, which is why Greeks are as keen to stay in the euro as they are to escape their debts.
Hold the celebrations: Greece is still doomed - Telegraph

The fundamental problem of the rich getting richer is that they bear an increasing proportion of the taxation that governments rely on for their income, and the one thing rich people (or rather, their well-paid accountants) are adept at is transferring their wealth to places where governments can't get at it. There's no lack of money in the world, it's just the people who have it don't want you spending it.
 

Flight

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It's good that the Greeks are standing up for themselves, but unfortunately I think the following analysis is correct:



Hold the celebrations: Greece is still doomed - Telegraph

The fundamental problem of the rich getting richer is that they bear an increasing proportion of the taxation that governments rely on for their income, and the one thing rich people (or rather, their well-paid accountants) are adept at is transferring their wealth to places where governments can't get at it. There's no lack of money in the world, it's just the people who have it don't want you spending it.
Largely agree with you, but let's be clear that article is written by the editor of one of the UKs most right wing newspapers, owned by the Barclay brothers who have assets of ?6billion and not far off the Fox News of British media.

This is the real problem, not that Greece is not right or has no cards to play but that the entire media is run by the ruling elite.


If other nations (and others are very close including France, Spain, Italy) vote in similar partys it will get interesting.
 

Hoss

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Help me out here. What does austerity mean? I thought it meant, basically, fiscal responsibility. IE doing whatever you have to do to pay your debts. So the new guy is against that?
 

Asshat wormie

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Austerity refers to shrinking goverment expendetures. Its not about paying debts, its about spending less. Doing so in shitty economic times is a bad fucking idea. Unless one considers greece's current economic situation "good".
 

General Antony

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Largely agree with you, but let's be clear that article is written by the editor of one of the UKs most right wing newspapers, owned by the Barclay brothers who have assets of ?6billion and not far off the Fox News of British media.

This is the real problem, not that Greece is not right or has no cards to play but that the entire media is run by the ruling elite.


If other nations (and others are very close including France, Spain, Italy) vote in similar partys it will get interesting.
The ECB is also explicitly forbidden by EU law from taking the actions required to do quantitative easing, yet the EU high court said they can go ahead and do it anyway. So the idea that any of this will follow the rule of law is typical bullshit, these people need to be dragged into the street and shot.
 

Famm

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Do you want WW3? This is how world wars happen.

Can't wait until russia comes to "liberate" their new communist pals.
glove3.gif
 

ohkcrlho

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Austerity refers to shrinking goverment expendetures. Its not about paying debts, its about spending less. Doing so in shitty economic times is a bad fucking idea. Unless one considers greece's current economic situation "good".
Yup. And that is the reason merkel and her followers are now facing ECB meausures to increase investment for the whole EU. They don't want it but there is no other choice. That is why Us economy is having improvements and in Europe....well...is stagnated.
Syriza is forming coalition with a right wing party for one reason, they want someone from the opposite political spectre on their side, mainly because the Golden Dawn (nazi scum) are now the third political force in the country. So it is a way to persuade a right wing group not to join the far right.

IMO this win by Syriza is really good for Europe. It's like a wake up call for Juncker, Merkel and others, that they must stop to follow these strict ideologies (austerity: good!) because sooner or later, people will get fed up and the classical political parties and ideologies will be replaced by extremists. (FN in France and Podemos in Spain are the biggest examples nowadays).

Tsipras toned down his speechs and ideas these last few months (5 days before the election, he visited an orthodox church) but some things wont change: he was the first prime minister NOT to sworn with his hand on a bible and he still wants to renegotiate Greece's debt and the terms to pay it.
 
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Didn't see it mentioned above, but their new Finance Minister worked for Valve on Steam Market analysis.

Valve's Economist Yanis Varoufakis Appointed Greece's Finance Minister - Slashdot

A turnover in the Greek government resulted from recent snap elections placing SYRIZA (Coalition of the Radical Left) in power - just shy of an outright majority by two seats. Atheist, and youngest Prime Minister in Greek history since 1865, Alexis Tsipras has been appointed the new prime minister and begun taking immediate drastic steps against the recent austerity laws put in place by prior administrations. One such step has been to appoint Valve's economist Yanis Varoufakis to position of Finance Minister of Greece.For the past three years Varoufakis has been working at Steam to analyze and improve the Steam Marketbut now has the opportunity to improve one of the most troubled economies in the world.
no cards to play
Hmm, trading cards did wonders for Steam's economy.
tongue.png
 

Xequecal

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Seriously though, what was the solution here? Austerity in Greece got their government running about a 4.5% surplus, before the debt interest payments were counted, of course. The point is Greece doesn't need to be loaned any more money. They need their current debt load forgiven. There is no way they can possibly pay it.

To simply stay current on their interest payments, Greece would have had to cut government spending another 25%. Greece is currently at about 26% unemployment, worse than the US during the Great Depression, and the EU wants them to lop another 25% off government spending. Is it really so insane that they elected a bunch of radical leftists to tell the EU to stuff it? You really want to reduce Greece to pretty much a third world country with a few nice tourist hotspots just so you could stand tall and proclaim that nobody gets a free ride?
 

Big Phoenix

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Do you want WW3? This is how world wars happen.

Can't wait until russia comes to "liberate" their new communist pals.


That said, I too, am tired of earning the same wage that my dad did 25 years ago doing the same job. The rich are immensely richer, and the middle class has stagnated to nothing. Real estate continues to go up, because that's one thing rich people love investing their money in.

I don't think that this is actually going to change anything, but bringing austrian economists to poverty stricken countries has never turned out well for europe.
"rich" people aka 1%ers dont make their wealth from real estate...
 

ohkcrlho

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Plus, the austerity measures are just an excuse to sell profitable state companies on sale.
 

Hoss

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So, is austerity what caused Greece's problems?
 

Lejina

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No, but the kind of austerity that is asked of them would fuck over the next generation or two something fierce. There's no satisfying way out of this without a reset.
 

Mist

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So, is austerity what caused Greece's problems?
It's gotten their budget balanced but their economy is completely in the shitter along with most of the rest of Europe. That's not a win. Conservatives completely fail to understand that your country's balance sheet is completely irrelevant when compared to your overall economy.

Meanwhile, growth in the US is actually looking pretty fucking great compared to Europe, even with our 'shitty' president. So that makes conservatives on both sides of the pond completely wrong about everything.
 

Hoss

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No, but the kind of austerity that is asked of them would fuck over the next generation or two something fierce. There's no satisfying way out of this without a reset.
What does a 'reset' mean?

It's gotten their budget balanced but their economy is completely in the shitter along with most of the rest of Europe. That's not a win. Conservatives completely fail to understand that your country's balance sheet is completely irrelevant when compared to your overall economy.

Meanwhile, growth in the US is actually looking pretty fucking great compared to Europe, even with our 'shitty' president. So that makes conservatives on both sides of the pond completely wrong about everything.
Mist, this is a thread about Grecian politics. Go talk about US politics in the other thread.

You are why we can't have nice things.