Gun control

Sulrn · Dec 15, 2012

Wanted to point out three things:

1) For everyone blaming the mother's lack of proper gun safety/control.

Fuck off. I don't know what kind of non-interacting families you've live(d) in, but even firearm safety courses encourage parents to give their YOUNG children a basic idea of their storage/safety devices so they have proper respect and know it's off limits. Take into consideration as well that most families introduce teenagers into any existing security/disaster plan and most immediate adult FAMILY MEMBERS will know how to get full access to any weapons owned.

I live separately from my parents and my sister where we're located in three separate states. If I needed a weapon I know where and how to access their personal weapons even without seeing them. This stands for every adult parent and peer I know in relation to their (plans for) children/parents.

2) Round size is absolutely irrelevant when you're talking about gun violence against an unarmored individual. A .22 squirrel plinker is just as dangerous a TOOL as an AR-15 or a sharpened knife. I say this as someone that deals with knife and gun shot wounds on a bi-monthly basis (monthly when I'm lucky). Wounds will vary, but for this argument it does not matter.

3) Admitting that guns make crime/murder easier was admitted on the 1st page of this thread, multiple times since, and in every fucking gun control thread in this group's history. Saying violence will happen is not a misdirection from gun control, it's a misdirection from Emotionally Charged Legislation that has no purpose.

No one here will argue that a sane, unattached rewrite of current gun laws shouldn't take place (to remove and add stipulations). As long as they make sense and serve a purpose other than responding to the masses irrational fears that guns are the real issue when they aren't.

Diasy_Adair · Dec 15, 2012

223 is like number 14 in from the top left, and being sufficiently sized to kill much of anything in north america barring the safety of using it vs bear (polar or non) Moose and the like; it still isnt a very big round comparatively. depending on bullet choice in the cartridge it can either fracture or basically explosively fragment apon penetration as with a polycarbonate tip type, or be used close to a NATO type round with a heavilly full metal jacketed bullet as a Geneva Convention pleasing pass thru bullet...designed to penetrate completely and pass thru without delivering its full terminal ballistic force to the victim and leaving a possibly repairable wound channel. I love the rounds utility and its performance is adequite for most American game. The rounds used to be very cheap and ideally suited for varmint hunting where you could shoot hundreds of pests a session cheaply. Many many dear are taken in increasing numbers as the AR-15 type firearms become more and more popular. I love the AR type guns, and i believe anyone legally suited and responsible enough should own one.
I would not let my schizo son have access to it, or a pistol, or a butcher knife, or a goddamn sling shot. If I couldnt lock it up tight enough, then i wouldnt possess it in any situation where someone with disorders might be pawing it. If i needed a gun to protect myself from that person specifically then id have a pistol safely on my hip, purse, or cross chest holster. I would sleep ontop of it so i could have it if the need arises but not my wierdo child.

Borzak · Dec 15, 2012

Gavinrad_sl said:
Definitely going to get me a brace of matchlocks and go shoot up a nursing home now that I know this.

I started to say earlier but I didn't want to throw gas on an already raging fire that if you wanted to kill a bunch of people in a gun free zone where you know you won't encounter a lot of armed resistance you could amr yourself with 6 shot percussion revolvers and go at it. For the first 5 (or 6 if you feel like carrying on a loaded cylinder or in between cylinders like most are capable of) it's just as effective as a mordern firearm and youc an carry as many as you want.

Mine

Diasy_Adair · Dec 15, 2012

Sulrn_sl said:
Wanted to point out three things:

1) For everyone blaming the mother's lack of proper gun safety/control.

Fuck off. I don't know what kind of non-interacting families you've live(d) in, but even firearm safety courses encourage parents to give their YOUNG children a basic idea of their storage/safety devices so they have proper respect and know it's off limits. Take into consideration as well that most families introduce teenagers into any existing security/disaster plan and most immediate adult FAMILY MEMBERS will know how to get full access to any weapons owned.

I live separately from my parents and my sister where we're located in three separate states. If I needed a weapon I know where and how to access their personal weapons even without seeing them. This stands for every adult parent and peer I know in relation to their (plans for) children/parents.

2) Round size is absolutely irrelevant when you're talking about gun violence against an unarmored individual. A .22 squirrel plinker is just as dangerous a TOOL as an AR-15 or a sharpened knife. I say this as someone that deals with knife and gun shot wounds on a bi-monthly basis (monthly when I'm lucky). Wounds will vary, but for this argument it does not matter.

3) Admitting that guns make crime/murder easier was admitted on the 1st page of this thread, multiple times since, and in every fucking gun control thread in this group's history. Saying violence will happen is not a misdirection from gun control, it's a misdirection from Emotionally Charged Legislation that has no purpose.

No one here will argue that a sane, unattached rewrite of current gun laws shouldn't take place (to remove and add stipulations). As long as they make sense and serve a purpose other than responding to the masses irrational fears that guns are the real issue when they aren't.

you forget that this dude has been known to have mental problems for years. I dont care if he had his own gun safe key after being a perfect boyscout and a gun range safety master up to that point. when problems arise, you do the responsible and mature thing and make it impossible for this person to KILL 26 PEOPLE WITH YOUR GUN. If you cannot do this, you shouldnt own a gun for the duration of this persons stay in your care however long or short that is. Anything less is just "hoping" something bad doesnt happen. Sure you can play *what if*, as in anyone can wake up, snap and without any previous signs of illness, procure a gun and kill people...shits gonna happen. you can only plan for that by having safeguards in place....gun safes, trigger locks, etc. but this person has had noted years of instability, mental and or personality issues. Any jaggoff can see what the results are of keeping firearms within reach of an unstable person no matter how well trained, taught and practiced. Or loved.

Goatface · Dec 15, 2012

could be bad info, but last i heard he had Asperger's, which on it own would not even prevent someone from legally buying a firearm in most places.

AladainAF · Dec 16, 2012

Diasy_Adair_sl said:
you forget that this dude has been known to have mental problems for years. I dont care if he had his own gun safe key after being a perfect boyscout and a gun range safety master up to that point. when problems arise, you do the responsible and mature thing and make it impossible for this person to KILL 26 PEOPLE WITH YOUR GUN. If you cannot do this, you shouldnt own a gun for the duration of this persons stay in your care however long or short that is. Anything less is just "hoping" something bad doesnt happen. Sure you can play *what if*, as in anyone can wake up, snap and without any previous signs of illness, procure a gun and kill people...shits gonna happen. you can only plan for that by having safeguards in place....gun safes, trigger locks, etc. but this person has had noted years of instability, mental and or personality issues. Any jaggoff can see what the results are of keeping firearms within reach of an unstable person no matter how well trained, taught and practiced. Or loved.

I'm sure he could have done much more damage with a car during recess. This was a terrible thing to have happen, but thank goodness he didn't do that. What can we do to protect anyone from using a car as a weapon? any suggestions?

tad10 · Dec 16, 2012

Kreugen_sl said:
Look up homicides by gun per capita, note location of countries, leap to conclusion = Want to reduce gun violence? End the war on drugs. pewwwwwwww that's the sound of homicide rates dropping off a cliff.

We've turned South America and our own ghettos into the second worst hells on earth. We're not quite Africa levels yet, although South American gangs are now using similar tactics (arming brainwashed children)

I agree with this.

War on Poverty lead to the Projects lead to lots of Black on Black violence (thanks LBJ) no clue how many LBJ killed through that war.
War on Drugs has lead to 50,000 or more dead in Mexico and the United States - I'm probably off by a factor of 10 but whatever.

Anyway, the major obstacle to ending the war on drugs are the entrenched administration interests (DEA) what they hell would all those agents do?

tad10 · Dec 16, 2012

goatface_sl said:
could be bad info, but last i heard he had Asperger's, which on it own would not even prevent someone from legally buying a firearm in most places.

I'm not a Psychologist, but I'm reasonably sure having Asperger's does not lead one to shoot children. Otherwise Bill Gates and/or 1/3 of all Software Engineers would have individually or collectivelly killed off most of the children in California and Washington State.

It's just more media bullshit trying to deflect blame on themselves.

Diasy_Adair · Dec 16, 2012

AladainAF_sl said:
I'm sure he could have done much more damage with a car during recess. This was a terrible thing to have happen, but thank goodness he didn't do that. What can we do to protect anyone from using a car as a weapon? any suggestions?

again, thats the *what if* game. from a gun owners perspective, its unfortunate that people who choose to do these things arent choosing a car to do it with. The discussion at hand though, is as per the title of the thread, Gun Control. Which I believe could be better achieved if gun owners stepped up the safekeeping of their already owned firearms instead of more legislation about gun ownership, the legality of accessories, how *mean* a gun looks, or how brutal a bullet design is.

hodj · Dec 16, 2012

Asperger's isn't even an officially recognized disorder now. Former sufferers are either being dropped entirely, or lumped into autism spectrum disorders.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...anual-17856914

Ignatius · Dec 16, 2012

Diasy_Adair_sl said:
again, thats the *what if* game. from a gun owners perspective, its unfortunate that people who choose to do these things arent choosing a car to do it with. The discussion at hand though, is as per the title of the thread, Gun Control. Which I believe could be better achieved if gun owners stepped up the safekeeping of their already owned firearms instead of more legislation about gun ownership, the legality of accessories, how *mean* a gun looks, or how brutal a bullet design is.

I completely agree, though that is not the only thing that needs some looking at. Personal responsibility is a beautiful thing. If you want to own something that powerful (I own lots of them!) then you need to be responsible for them.

Goatface · Dec 16, 2012

problem is, something like 75% of "safes" sold at big box/home stores can be forced up in under 5 mins with hammer/pry bar. gunlocks are fairly easy to defeat too. i have a pistol with key lock built in, don't know how strong they are. pretty sure you can pick up the key for a couple of bucks.

tad10 · Dec 16, 2012

Diasy_Adair_sl said:
you forget that this dude has been known to have mental problems for years. I dont care if he had his own gun safe key after being a perfect boyscout and a gun range safety master up to that point. when problems arise, you do the responsible and mature thing and make it impossible for this person to KILL 26 PEOPLE WITH YOUR GUN. If you cannot do this, you shouldnt own a gun for the duration of this persons stay in your care however long or short that is. Anything less is just "hoping" something bad doesnt happen. Sure you can play *what if*, as in anyone can wake up, snap and without any previous signs of illness, procure a gun and kill people...shits gonna happen. you can only plan for that by having safeguards in place....gun safes, trigger locks, etc. but this person has had noted years of instability, mental and or personality issues. Any jaggoff can see what the results are of keeping firearms within reach of an unstable person no matter how well trained, taught and practiced. Or loved.

People are going to fuck this up; the solution is to arm the principals/armed security in schools. The principle of the elementary school ran to the gunshots and died, think of what could have happened if she'd actually had a weapon.

Hell you can start with tasers, if a gun is too much for some principals.

Cybsled · Dec 16, 2012

Meanwhile, in tad10 "everyone is a stone cold killah Rambo" fantasy land...

Ignatius · Dec 16, 2012

Maybe personal experience skews my view, but I'd just assume not even give most teachers a foam bat.

B_Mizzle · Dec 16, 2012

tad10_sl said:
People are going to fuck this up; the solution is to arm the principals/armed security in schools. The principle of the elementary school ran to the gunshots and died, think of what could have happened if she'd actually had a weapon.

Hell you can start with tasers, if a gun is too much for some principals.

It's going to be hard to force any sort of weapons into the hands of liberals though (why should they protect themselves and others, that's the government's job). Which unfortunately make up the majority of the teachers/administrators in our schools.

tad10 · Dec 16, 2012

Cybsled_sl said:
Meanwhile, in tad10 "everyone is a stone cold killah Rambo" fantasy land...

I'm pretty sure both Israel and Switzerland require every adult to receive some form of military training.

Anyhoo - my favorite soundbite on gun control:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...more-frequent/

We've had guns in civilian hands for 236 or so years and

overall gun violence in the United States has been declining in recent years while mass shootings and killings appear to have become more commonplace

. However

of the 12 deadliest shootings in U.S. history, six have taken place since 2007.

For much of the 20th century there were, on average, a handful of mass killings per decade. But that number spiked in 1980, and kept rising thereafter. In the United States, there have now been at least 62 mass shootings in the past three decades, with 24 in the last seven years alone. This has happened even as the nation's overall violent crime and homicide rates have been dropping.

Fun times. Something in the water or maybe the media overexposure. Interestingly CNN was founded in 1980...

Itzena_sl · Dec 16, 2012

tad10_sl said:
People are going to fuck this up; the solution is to arm the principals/armed security in schools. The principle of the elementary school ran to the gunshots and died, think of what could have happened if she'd actually had a weapon.

Hell you can start with tasers, if a gun is too much for some principals.

Aychamo BanBan · Dec 16, 2012

Anti-gun people are idiots.

Brown rifle = for hunting
Paint same rifle black, OMG ASSAULT WEAPON!@!@?!@?!@?!?@! IT HOLDS MORE BULLETZ!

Cybsled · Dec 16, 2012

Being in favor of tighter regulations on weapons isn't anti-gun. I'm sure if we implemented something like Japan's policy, you would have the right crying that "liberal doctors" using "pseudo science" will just claim that you are not mentally fit to use a firearm and deny you of your God...I mean...Constitution given right to own weapons! Besides, how else will they defend themselves vs. the U.N. Shocktroopers???

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