Gun control

General Antony

General Antony

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Azrayne_sl said:
This is what the pro-gun crowd don't get, it's about statistics, not individual events. Even if giving every other teacher a concealed firearm does stop a school massacre or two, it's still an overall net loss for society if you lose 2 or 3 kids to accidents or teachers flipping out or whatever for every one you save from klebold wannabes.

I remember when I was in 9th, 10th grade? The most straight laced, orderly, rule-abiding teacher in the entire school lost his shit, started beating on some kid and shoved him up against the wall with his hands around the kids throat. Point is, sometimes people just snap. Do you want them to have a gun on them when it happens? Some won't use it, but it only takes a few.
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I assume you will apply this same logic to police officers and military personnel, yes?
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

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I believe that the UK does not have the death penalty. So one would argue that we already have more stringent laws than the UK in relation to crimes of this nature, therefore, maybe more stringent laws may not have as much impact here as they did in England/Australia.
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The fact that they're killing themselves seems the suggest the reverse though, doesn't it? Obviously they'd rather die than be cramped in a cell till they rot away of old age.

I assume you will apply this same logic to police officers and military personnel, yes?
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Military/cops are specifically selected and trained in the use of firearms on the job, and regular involvement in violence is potentially part of their job, it's something they absolutely have to know (arguable with police, but given the lack of innocents being killed by cops here, I don't begrudge them it). I don't want to live in a world where firearm proficiency is a prerequisite to becoming a primary school teacher. And if we do, then I'd expect the same stringent requirements to be in place.
 
hodj

hodj

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Azrayne_sl said:
The fact that they're killing themselves seems the suggest the reverse though, doesn't it? Obviously they'd rather die than be cramped in a cell till they rot away of old age.
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I dunno, to me personally, that seems a leap of logic.

The kid killed his mother, and then a shit load of kids, I'd say his intent was to die period in that school. If it turns out he was afraid of being committed, which is the first and only real motivation I've seen reported so I'm going to go on that till we see/hear something different, I"d say his intent was to commit suicide in a sort of "blaze of glory". I wouldn't ascribe rationality to the process of thinking "I will kill myself so I don't have to go to prison" I'd say its more "I'll kill myself, and in the process I'll take as many with me to show the world the extent of my inner rage/anger".

Klebold and Harris back at Columbine didn't go in there thinking "We'll kill ourselves to avoid prison after committing our act" they went in thinking "We're going to kill all these people we hate who hate us and then we're going to kill ourselves, that'll show them!" basically.

That's my take on it. I dunno, you can't really ever know for certain what was going through his head when he killed himself too, but that's my guess of his general mindset.
 
F

Flank_sl

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I mostly agree with Hodj, banning guns in the USA does not seem feasible. It could be done, but it would take decades, and all it would take is more the government to change and reverse the policy and the effort would be wasted. I think that's a big problem: what took months in the UK would take decades in the US.
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

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Yeah, you don't live in the real world. Some donut eating motherfucker just needed a job and police officer is what he picked, these aren't the cream of the crop by any means.
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Oh I'm as critical of the Police as anyone, if not more, but here in Australia they seem to have managed to carry firearms on a daily basis without any significantly regular misuse or accidents, which I think demonstrates that they can handle it. If kids were getting 'accidentally' shot up every other week in drug raids like they seem to over in the states, I'd have a very different opinion.

When I said they're select, I certainly didn't mean that I have any idealistic notions about these professions (again, far from it), just that they're walking into jobs where they know, from the outset, that at some stage they almost certainly will encounter violence, and have to be prepared for it. This is hardly the case with a teacher.
 
I

I'm Rich Bitch_sl

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Tuco_sl said:
You could control the results based on socioeconomic factors (If it isn't already...) and you'd start to see more even results. But you can't really control the results based on cultural factors which is a huge problem that black leaders are trying very hard to fix. The race is a bit of a red herring, it's the culture of some people of a race that is the root issue.

I think you and I agree but you're oversimplifying it. You can't just put a black and a white baby in even the same household and assume that they grow up with the same experiences, pressures etc.
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It is not a "Black or White" issue. Race is irrelevant. Economics is the issue.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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General Antony_sl said:
Yeah, you don't live in the real world. Some donut eating motherfucker just needed a job and police officer is what he picked, these aren't the cream of the crop by any means.
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Infact its worse than that if you have too high of an IQ they won't hire you. think about what I just said, ill repeat it for dramatic effect.

If you have too high of an IQ the police will not hire you.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-b...#.UNEdsqC0NpUt.


These are the people you are going to trust society with being the last line of defense? Obvious thugs charged with protecting commerce(corporations), just smart enough to be able to work the machines and dumb enough not to question things. Or maybe we shouldn't avoid this responsibility, trust ourselves and your right to protect yourself.
 
Big Phoenix

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Azrayne_sl said:
Oh I'm as critical of the Police as anyone, if not more, but here in Australia they seem to have managed to carry firearms on a daily basis without any significantly regular misuse or accidents, which I think demonstrates that they can handle it. If kids were getting 'accidentally' shot up every other week in drug raids like they seem to over in the states, I'd have a very different opinion.

When I said they're select, I certainly didn't mean that I have any idealistic notions about these professions (again, far from it), just that they're walking into jobs where they know, from the outset, that at some stage they almost certainly will encounter violence, and have to be prepared for it. This is hardly the case with a teacher.
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You do realize that outside of whatever firearm a cop or soldier carries, they know almost exactly nothing about firearms right?
 
I

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B_Mizzle_sl said:
Well to be fair, cops aren't in the schools to protect the kids from psycho maniacs. They are there to protect us from the bad kids. But hey what's the difference really, psycho white guy steals his moms gun goes on a rampage, poor little black teen don't eat because his mom spent the food money on cigs and blow, steals his uncles gun, joins a gang, does a drive by in the parking lot.
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mkopec_sl said:
A comprehensive report of targeted school violence commissioned by the U.S. Secret Service and Department of Education concluded that more than half of attackers demonstrated interest in violent media, including books, movies, or video games. However, the report cautioned that no particular behavior, including interest in violence, could be used to produce a "profile" of a likely shooter.

The U.S. Department of Justice has funded research at the Center for Mental Health and Media at Massachusetts General Hospital to better determine what impact video games have on young people. Although it is still in the preliminary stages, this research and several other studies suggest that a subset of youths may become more aggressive after playing violent video games. However, in the vast majority of cases, use of violent video games may be part of normal development, especially in boys - and a legitimate source of fun too.
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Appears we have a couple of good old fashioned Dittoheads in our mitts.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/limba...neighborhoods/

On his syndicated radio show this afternoon, Rush Limbaugh went after the "anti-gun media" for, in his belief, not caring about gun violence when it affects urban neighborhoods like Chicago and Oakland.

"You guys ever been to Chicago? Do you know what happens in Chicago every night?" Limbaugh rhetorically asked the pro-gun politicians like Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) who've now become pro-gun control in the wake of last week's massacre. "What happens in Chicago in a week dwarfs what happened in Connecticut. Just nobody's reporting it. There's no cameras up there. You don't see it. All you see is the mayor warning the gangbangers to kill each other instead of other people. That's all you ever see."

Limbaugh continued: "Have you ever heard any politician go on an anti-gun rant when you've heard about urban violence? Does it ever happen? I'm asking. Those stories out of Chicago were happening daily. Drudge was highlighting them. But take your pick. The Rodney King incident, whatever, the Watts riots, pick one. Post-Katrina looting in New Orleans, was the anti-gun control out in force there? They never are, are they? I wonder why that is? Why is it the anti-gun people never use violence in urban neighborhoods as an example of why we have to get rid of guns?" he asked.

The conservative host then cited other cities for example: "Look at the gun violence that took place in Oakland against the cops and so forth. The anti-Second Amendment crowd never gins up, do they?"

He concluded: "There are more than 41 murders a month in Chicago. The lion's share of them are taking place in poor black neighborhoods. I don't hear the Reverend [Jesse] Jackson or any of the anti-gun media that we're hearing from now raise a stink about guns in those places. That's absolutely right. I wonder why that is. There has to be a reason."
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Z

Zhaun_sl

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Xeldar_sl said:
Deaths per 100k citizens, drug overdose: 12. Source:http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreation...inkillerod.pdf
Deaths per 100k citizens, gun homicide: 3.7. Source:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
Death per 100k citizens, motor vehicles: 11.2 . Source:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/acc-inj.htm

Guns are safer relative to drugs or cars.
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I agree.

There should be much higher requirments to be able to drive in general and the requirements to get a licence to own a firearm should be at least as difficult as that.

Good call.
 
hodj

hodj

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Just remember, even a bloated fat clock with clogged arteries and erectile dysfunction is right twice a millenia.
 
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