Hearthstone

zzeris · Aug 1, 2016

Ravishing said:
Yea I agree but I think he's auto-include in most control/reno decks. Interesting note: If you check opponent's deck you'll know whether he has this guy in their list or not.

I also think he's an auto-include. Your deck was already built with a certain group of cards to get you to the end game. With Monkey and discover cards already successfully expanding your deck, 5 more cards isn't going to break you. If fact, the extra options can only be a benefit. While monkey can screw you, it usually doesn't unless you really don't have better options. Same for this. For the many, many times you just couldn't find the right card fast enough...finding a 5/6 for 5 that adds to your deck isn't going to be the difference just like drawing Elise didn't just kill you either. Love the card. Love the direction Blizzard is going. Card is solid by itself but adding 5 legendaries? Will I ever play aggro again lol!?

Deathwing,

Im almost to that point as well. I do like to make decks so I don't have a great answer but getting legend, doing more arena for 12 win runs? Doing like Kripp and seeing how many 12 runs in a row? Doing legendary with different classes? Getting golden with all 9(if you havent?)

Deathwing · Aug 1, 2016

Uh...ok?

I mean, it fits the warlock zoo theme and you get 6/6 worth of stats for 5 mana...just seems too expensive. Also, not sure what would be cut to make room a 5 mana spell. Forbidden Summoning still likely better.

Deathwing · Aug 1, 2016

Ravishing said:
Part of the fun with card games like this is the deck building. If you're not focused on being competitive and you also don't enjoy deck building then the game probably won't hold your interest much longer.

Since you already admit to not enjoy deckbuilding, give a run toward Legend a shot imo. It requires a lot more patience and skill. Knowing what to play and when and at what ranks. And also making few mistakes. I've yet to reach Legend myself, but it's never been a main goal of mine. I have more fun theorycrafting decks and playing non-meta cards.

I'd enjoy deckbuilding more if I could coherently trace failures(and wins?) back to concrete causes. So much of this game is RNG that it obfuscates marginal data. On top of that, at what sample size do you start making that judgement of what cards to tweak?

Origin · Aug 1, 2016

Angelwatch said:
New season. So many Warriors.

Yup. Pretty boring.

Deathwing · Aug 1, 2016

Warrior has its counters in hunter and secret paladin. On top of that, it's not just one warrior deck but many. Honestly, what's a better meta than this?

Ravishing · Aug 1, 2016

These board flood cards for warlock, wtf. That card will see play for sure. Doesn't have charge, but 6/6 compared to 5/7 doomguard, great synergy with Councilman, more resilient against whirlwinds.

Main question is can Zoo fit 2 of this or will it be a one-of. Zoo has so many iterations that I'm sure we'll see 0,1, and 2 of this played and all 3 options being legit.

Deathwing said:
I'd enjoy deckbuilding more if I could coherently trace failures(and wins?) back to concrete causes. So much of this game is RNG that it obfuscates marginal data. On top of that, at what sample size do you start making that judgement of what cards to tweak?

I only make bad decks so identifying what pieces to replace is not my expertise. Only advice I have is from streamers who usually say, "Would you rather have X in hand than Y?".

As an example: If I'm staring at a Shield Block in my hand, would I prefer to have Bash instead for this situation? If answer is Yes more than No then you probably want to swap it out.

Another example is the Ragnaros vs Barron Geddon scenario. When board is easily flooded and sticky Baron Geddon became the better option. Now with less flood Ragnaros is reigning supreme again. You're going to have situations where Geddon is better, but you'll want Ragnaros more often.

Mures · Aug 1, 2016

zzeris said:
finding a 5/6 for 5 that adds to your deck isn't going to be the difference just like drawing Elise didn't just kill you either.

There is a big difference in that Malchezar adds the cards to your deck at the start of the game, not when you play him. If it was when he was played, I agree I could see him in a lot more decks. Adding 5 cards to your deck you have to consider that is 5 other cards you could draw instead of your heal/removal whathaveyou to make it to late game. Like my example with yogg druid. Sure, 5 more cards would be nice in that deck, but ramping up is vital to the deck's success and now you're trying to draw into ramp with 35 cards instead of 30, my initial thought is it will make the deck less consistent.

Valderen · Aug 1, 2016

I think how much fun you'll have deck building is very dependent on why you play in the first place.

If the only goal is to rank as high as possible, deck building isn't as fun...because the really good optimized deck are already out there. Just get one of those netdecks and they will generally be far better than anything you'll come up with.

If like me, you don't really care about ranking up, but are happy in the 15-10 range, than deck building is fun in my opinion. At this rank, you'll see a few non-standard decks, or netdecks that are not played well. So your less than optimized deck will win you enough games that you stay more or less where you are and still have fun.

The really fun part for me, is to have answer people don't expect, or win condition that take people by surprise, or play a card that's rarely played...and that one in 5 times it actually work.

It just makes the game less predictable and more fun in my opinion. I hate the very high rank, because there is very rarely any surprise. You know what the other is playing, he knows what you're playing...even in Hearthstone where RNG is king, it's too predictable.

chthonic-anemos · Aug 1, 2016

Ravishing said:
Prince Malchezar is the 2nd Neutral Demon minion, the first is Illidan.
Seems like an auto-include, immediately increases your deck size to 35 cards, but granted this means you could have some dead draws which fuck you up. For a Control/Mid-Range deck it's great but for Tempo/Aggro it might not be desirable.
5 mana 5/6 is really nice stats, I hate to see the 5 slot keep getting inflated. 5 Health was a leap now it seems 6 health is the new mark.
Will be great for Reno decks:

It will NOT add duplicate legendaries into your deck. (if you have Reno in your deck, it will not add another Reno.)
It will obey deck-building rules. If you're a mage, it can only add Mage and Neutral Legendaries.

Click to expand...

Taho · Aug 1, 2016

Do you guys agree with Tempostorm that Token Druid is a T1 deck in the current meta? I personally don't see it. It loses to Zoo, Tempo Dragon War, and Hunter. The three of which are all over the ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong please. I know people have had success climbing with it, but currently it doesn't seem like a good choice.

Deathwing · Aug 1, 2016

VS numbers disagree. It's slightly favored vs midrange hunter and even versus most warrior archetypes. Its only weaknesses are slightly unfavorable matchups versus shaman(midrange and aggro) and c'thun warrior.

It's probably the most consistent across-the-board deck atm, but probably not the easiest to play.

Gavinmad · Aug 1, 2016

Yeah it's much harder to pilot than normal Yogg drood, but I prefer it. Not much has changed despite the nerfs, druid is still basically curve out with acceleration and smash face or lose. It just lost inevitability without force/roar.

Ravishing · Aug 1, 2016

Taho said:
Do you guys agree with Tempostorm that Token Druid is a T1 deck in the current meta? I personally don't see it. It loses to Zoo, Tempo Dragon War, and Hunter. The three of which are all over the ladder. Correct me if I'm wrong please. I know people have had success climbing with it, but currently it doesn't seem like a good choice.

It's not unfavored heavily against any deck. It's a 50% winrate deck at worst case, maybe 40% in some extreme cases. It's not like Freeze mage vs Warrior where mage has a 10% chance or some crap.

Druid ramp means they always have a chance to get free wins, even against the worst cases.

Taho · Aug 1, 2016

There is no way token Druid is favored against the hybrid/mid hunter lists out there now. Yes, you can obviously win with strong starts, but it's definitely less than 50%.

Deathwing · Aug 1, 2016

*shrug*, don't tell us, tell them:

http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

Ravishing · Aug 1, 2016

Deathwing said:
*shrug*, don't tell us, tell them:

http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/matchup-chart-data-reaper-report/

yup, pretty much what I said. Against Hunter it's 46-48% according to that site.. If Druid takes board early Hunter doesn't stand a chance. Ramp is very important against the faster decks, against slow decks you want to save resources and wait for monster turns.

sike · Aug 1, 2016

I struggle with token yogg druid - played it around rank 5 over the last few weeks and saw way too many tempo dragon warriors, hunters and zoo. Also found it difficult to keep up with shaman's board presence...

Mures · Aug 1, 2016

My opponents tuskarrs been so good lately, just nearly lost a game because the first one summoned totem and the second flametongue. Card is so bad except when it isn't.

Taho · Aug 1, 2016

sike said:
I struggle with token yogg druid - played it around rank 5 over the last few weeks and saw way too many tempo dragon warriors, hunters and zoo. Also found it difficult to keep up with shaman's board presence...

That was my experience too at ranks 7-10 before the reset and now continuing after the reset.

Can't decide on the final few cards. Really want to run Soul of the Forest, but have difficulty fitting it in.

Famm · Aug 1, 2016

Some of this card art for Kara looks like it belongs in a Disney movie, well beyond the usual Blizzard cartoonyness in some cases.

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