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Famm

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I guess the portals all summon a minion. Two mana, give a minion 1/2, summon a two drop. Buff plus small minion, helps with priest's miserable early game.

You can hate priest all you want but basically the two worst standard ladder classes got the worst cards in the adventure. I know its a small set so there's only so much fixing that can happen, but wtf are they doing there? Were these cards designed last year, is that the issue?
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
43,737
52,284
I didn't even run thoughtsteal in priest pre-standard. The problem is that the core priest cards are shit and pre-rotation priest revolved around slowing the game down with deathlords or resetting the board with lightbomb. Losing both of those cards (and velen's chosen to a much lesser extent) is what destroyed the ladder viability of the class. On top of that, they can't even reliably beat other super endgame control decks anymore, which was something they were very good at pre-rotation.
 
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slippery

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
7,910
7,732
Deathlord/Lightbomb are massive cards for Priest, and even combo well. Zombie Chow was too. Those are cards that let Priest be proactive to an extent instead of purely reactive
 
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Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Some really good cards there.

Menagerie Warden will definitely see play. Turn 5 druid of the claw/stranglethorn turn 6 warden is sick. Or turn 4 innervate + warden with an early beast, awesome tempo.
 
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Enzee

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
This tavern brawl.. I hate it. Maybe it's just cause I dont have the cardpool to do the ridiculously high damage deck. But, I got the win 5 brawls quest, so I made a mage deck with a bunch of burn that I just direct at myself to finish it quickly. Quickest way to finish this quest in awhile.
 
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D

Dragonaut

Molten Core Raider
41
47
The game is being pushed more and more toward midrange board control contests. It feels like they're systematically eliminating aggro and control. Virtually everything in this expansion is a mid-sized chunk of stats with a mild effect. Even the spells just summon minions. Coupled with the generally unimpressive cards in Karazhan and their laughable handling of the priest problem, makes it hard to be enthusiastic about this adventure.

What the fuck were they thinking with these priest cards, though? For the first time ever, I'm genuinely entertaining the possibility that the developres are in fact incompetent and were simply handed a winning formula that they've been wringing dry for a couple of years. The game's premise is fantastic, but I can't help but feel that they're managing it wrong. The material they were given was better than what they've produced since.
 
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zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
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Famm said:
That was actually a joke like OP shredder. But keep in mind savage combatant is a four cost beast.
Click to expand...

I thought it might be but did I mention how badly I've wanted beast druid to work lol. Mounted raptor and shredder aren't OP bro! I promise.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more expansion ratings yet. I always enjoy reading the thoughts of long time players.

Edit- I dont agree with aggro being phased out. Sure, they want more interaction and games to go longer but aggro is still really powerful. Zoo will never die.
 
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Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
I missed it, but savj was rating the cards on his stream this morning.
 
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Famm

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
11,041
794
People still bitch about aggro, but honestly I don't consider pure aggro to be very prevalent anymore. I keep seeing zoo referenced as aggro, but I disagree.

Aggro still has a place due to the ladder system rewarding fast win/fast lose, but the only big ladder deck I'd consider actual aggro is aggro shaman. Some people play that aggro warrior but its not really common. For the most part the meta continues to be very midrange, its true.

And its true Blizzard did this by design, they've been on record for a while saying their vision for the game is minions trading on the board. They especially hate combo decks, they've consistently nerfed them all to the ground. Some more deserving than others.

They don't seem to hate control, but some of the tools that have rotated out really hurt most classes ability to play a long game. Warrior remains the lone class that really excels at it.
 
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zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
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I don't know what you would call zoo outside of aggro honestly. They vomit out minions and can kill you in 5-6 turns. Sure, maybe it's not being played as much but it's still there and still aggro.
 
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Valishar

Valishar

Molten Core Raider
766
424
Dragonaut said:
What the fuck were they thinking with these priest cards, though? For the first time ever, I'm genuinely entertaining the possibility that the developres are in fact incompetent and were simply handed a winning formula that they've been wringing dry for a couple of years. The game's premise is fantastic, but I can't help but feel that they're managing it wrong. The material they were given was better than what they've produced since.
Click to expand...

You could read this interview and kind of roll your eyes.
Mike Donais on One Night in Karazhan, whether Priest really has a problem, and if Fiery War Axe is the best card in Hearthstone | PC Gamer.

PC Gamer: Let’s talk about Priest. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of discussion about the problem with the class. According to the Vicious Syndicate data, it’s barely being played on ladder. There are a variety of issues, from how reactive the core class cards are, to the lack of early game. Is it something you’re looking to fix?

Mike Donais: Is there a problem? When you list the nine classes in order [of power], there will be always be a class that is ninth. It’s impossible for there not to be a ninth class. So in a way, if you call it a problem, then there’s always a problem and it’s not fixable, because there’s always a bottom class. So in that respect, not really, it’s just a matter of which class.

But more importantly, it should change over time, right? As time goes by, when a big set gets released, it should mix it up. So I think as sets are released Priest will get its day in the spotlight, just like all things in Hearthstone rotate in some way. I don’t know that a small set [like One Night in Karazhan] is enough to move Priest from class number nine to class number one, but hopefully it’ll give the Priest some new stuff to try out and explore. Book Wyrm has been revealed, and I think that’s a reasonable card for Dragon Priest, Barnes is pretty good in N’Zoth Priest, and there are a couple of other cards like that in this set, where even though they’re neutral, they actually apply to Priest better than other classes. Then of course there are the new Priest cards.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that just give you a ton of confidence! Notice how he doesn't address any of the specific concerns in the original question. Priest gets basically zero early game cards and none of them especially proactive either.
 
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Famm

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
11,041
794
THIS COULD TURN IT AROUND FOR N'ZOTH PRIEST GUYS!!!

a1pXsFf.png


And we all know how starved for four drops priest is! Just you wait til I get to turn four buddy, why I'll....oh I'm dead.
 
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khalid

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Interviews with developers...

They are so maddening everytime I read them from any game that I spend significant time on. Almost universally the shit they say just doesn't match any sort of reality.


Their comment on ancient of lore just really irks me. Nerfing a card to absolute garbage, making it just worse than a neutral card. Makes no sense.
 
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zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,277
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Valishar said:
You could read this interview and kind of roll your eyes.
Mike Donais on One Night in Karazhan, whether Priest really has a problem, and if Fiery War Axe is the best card in Hearthstone | PC Gamer.


Doesn't that just give you a ton of confidence! Notice how he doesn't address any of the specific concerns in the original question. Priest gets basically zero early game cards and none of them especially proactive either.
Click to expand...

So maddening. Priest wasn't top of the line in any of the expansions that I remember. It has some decent moments because of Naxx and Lightbomb but it has never received the gas Shammy has gotten or even that Lock just got to try a new type of cancer deck. The worst cards of the expansion are priest but maybe someone will play some of the neutrals more in priest instead of in a good class's deck? Seriously, none of the neutrals will really work better in priest than in pally. Beast druid got a ton of stuff but can't even make any real priest decks. Amazing that you can make a solid aggro, mid-range(several), and control Shammy deck but not even one decent priest archetype..oh yeah, N'Zoth priest...
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
43,737
52,284
Barnes isn't even good in N'Zoth decks. You don't need an epic fucking N'Zoth turn, if you get a couple deathrattles back and they don't have mass removal or a way to push lethal, you just win. You don't need to get 2 Cairne, 2 Sylvanas, and 2 Tyrion from N'zoth.

and yeah he completely ducks the question. Pre-standard you could probably decide which class was the worst if you thought about it a bit, but every class was still ladder viable. Priest is shit tier.
 
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Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,640
5,560
Krip just did a 15 minute rant video on Purify being the worst card in the game.

I have a theory... the original intention for Purify was for the card to return one of your minions to it's original state (ie: remove silence, hex, etc), but they couldn't get it right mechanically and the expansion needed to be released so they just said fuckit and made it silence your own minion. Or, if it wasn't a technical issue, maybe they just chickened out and decided now is not the time to introduce this new game mechanic. That seems to be the only conceivable way that Purify created and makes it into the game, as is.

 
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D

Dragonaut

Molten Core Raider
41
47
Twilight Sparkle said:
Barnes isn't even good in N'Zoth decks. You don't need an epic fucking N'Zoth turn, if you get a couple deathrattles back and they don't have mass removal or a way to push lethal, you just win. You don't need to get 2 Cairne, 2 Sylvanas, and 2 Tyrion from N'zoth.
Click to expand...

No but getting a 1/1 Cairne, Sylvanas or Tirion (or even Tauren) with your 4-drop is insane tempo and will help you reach your N'Zoth turn in one piece. Also, it does help lessen the likelihood of being screwed for deathrattle minions. Once in a while, you do sit there with N'Zoth in hand and the only thing it'll bring back is a Loothoarder or something like that. I'm pretty sure Barnes is a perfect fit for N'Zoth paladin at least, where you don't have the greatest midgame drops but do have the best deathrattle minions (i.e. Tirion). I can't see how this card doesn't see play there. Almost every card it grabs is good. Ragnaros (both), Acolyte, Loothoarder... the deck might remain a bit bad, but surely it plays Barnes.
 
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Valishar

Valishar

Molten Core Raider
766
424
I can see Barnes grabbing a Doomsayer as well, if you use him in paladin. That could lose you the game, if you're ahead.

That limits him as another reactive card.
 
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Famm

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
11,041
794
Dragonaut said:
No but getting a 1/1 Cairne, Sylvanas or Tirion (or even Tauren) with your 4-drop is insane tempo and will help you reach your N'Zoth turn in one piece. Also, it does help lessen the likelihood of being screwed for deathrattle minions. Once in a while, you do sit there with N'Zoth in hand and the only thing it'll bring back is a Loothoarder or something like that. I'm pretty sure Barnes is a perfect fit for N'Zoth paladin at least, where you don't have the greatest midgame drops but do have the best deathrattle minions (i.e. Tirion). I can't see how this card doesn't see play there. Almost every card it grabs is good. Ragnaros (both), Acolyte, Loothoarder... the deck might remain a bit bad, but surely it plays Barnes.
Click to expand...

And again, one of my biggest issues in general building paladin decks has always been that the four slot is terribly overcrowded. I don't think I'm alone on that. Is Barnes really good enough to warrant a place? I tend to agree with Gavin, you don't need an extra deathrattle summon bad enough to make Barnes worth the slot. Just use powerful DR minions on curve and it sorts itself out.
 
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