Hearthstone

Why not this?

Heh, two games today where I shadowstepped yogg right away so not only did he duck the board clear, i got to cast him a second time. That is definitely something that should be (and is) going away.

*edit*

Definitely just holy wrathed myself in the face for 12

Just had barnes pull out a hogger in my prince reno deck. It's super effective!

Twilight Sparkle said:

Well you're going to be disappointed as hell because if these changes successfully slow the meta down a bit, Emperor fueled burst finish decks are going to really surge in the meta.

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Not really, Ill be jamming control warrior and be in my happy place again.

Famm said:

Yeah, I agree, it goes against their stated reason for nerfing rockbiter (won't rotate like other strong shaman cards). So why is it so important to dump on Tuskarr? He's going to wild where other broken shit will end up, just let it go? Probably because they want to add strong totems in the longer run, which does make sense in a way but its still contradictory to their stated balance approach.

Charge is weird, the fact that the card is one mana actually seems to open up MORE issues. Charging Arcane Giant warrior decks anyone? Sounds fucking awful. Obviously the extra attack is a big part of it but not sure dropping it all the way to one mana was smart.

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Tuskarr is straight up a 3/8 chance to win the game. I'm primarily a Shaman player and you pretty much just don't lose if you score a premium totem from it. Even in the worst case scenario of Flametongue totem on an empty board, it still forces your opponent to remove it instead of the Totemic, letting you get a lot more damage than you otherwise would.

I never said it wasn't powerful, just that its inconsistent with their stated approach to shaman nerfs.

Aaubert said:

Enz, since you're playing the deck, what are your thoughts on subbing out one of the two Abusives for a Tundra Rhino? Rhino does amazing things with kindly grandmother, the spiderwolf, the highmane, cotw or Animal Companion...

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I don't hate it, have considered tundra rhino at times, but I'd probably drop something else first. Abusive combined with our sticky minions or the barnes 1/1, helps keep control of the board by trading up into something bigger. I've had the best tempo swings with abusive in the mid games turns (3-6) that put me into a winning position.

Going with tundra rhino means you are moving slightly more towards the mid/late game and hoping for a big swing the turn after you play him, i.e. slowing down a bit. If you are slowing down, maybe cut an argent squire or deadly shot for it? Or, one of the other 1ofs in the deck. Some non-beast card, anyway. I personally like abusive too much, but once he is nerfed to a 1/1 in next patch, then it's probably correct to cut him for rhino instead.

Disclaimer: I havent been playing HS much for the last 10days or so, been involved in the Eternal beta.. just logging in for a little arena and clearing quests, not so much ladder anymore. So, I may not be an expert on this subject anymore.

slippery said:

I was streaming today and thinking while playing against Control Warrior. I think Justicar should be nerfed for Warrior and be 3 Armor. I think 4 is just too much. No other class has nearly unlosable games except Warrior, because they can just get such ridiculous amounts of armor with so much removal that it just can't be overcome.

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slippery - I've genuinely wondered about this in those games when I'm sitting there in my #neverconcede mode, looking down the barrel of 45 armor with no minions on the board - is the warrior being "unlosable" at that point, or did I just already lose and should consider it the same way i would as if a mage had just double pyroblasted me?

I had a game where I was playing as hunter vs. warrior. He had a bunch of small c'thun boosting minions, I knew if he dropped c'thun, he won, and he only had like, 8 health left while I had around 28. I did an Unleash the Hounds, ignored his c'thun minions, went face and got him to 2 health. He does his whirlwind hijinx and drops the "give c'thun taunt 1/4" minion. He walks out with some 20 armor, and then the next turn he drops Brann+the c'thun 10 armor Shieldbearer. Insta 20 armor, Brann is behind a taunt. Fuhhhhhhh.

The deck that i've been consistently losing to (ranks 1-3) has been control warrior. I think i've lost at least 10 matches, and each was a 20+ minute fest. It's fucking annoying.

Control warrior has so much removal, it has so much overall health, there really isn't shit many decks can do. And i'm playing the OP shaman fotm midrange deck. I guess mid-range hunter does well against it?

Having said this, i think that the nerfs are generally not well thought out at all. I think they chose the easiest path and said fuck it. There were way more creative ways to change each of the cards.

I specifically think that Execute should have been changed in a more creative way. As it stands, it's still a 2 mana kill anything, if you have a minion or axe on board, or 3 mana with a Blood to Ichor activator etc. What i would have liked to see is a change to something along the lines of: Destroy a minion if it is below 50% health. This would go in line with WoW's execute mechanic as well. I just don't see this nerf affecting the strongest warrior archetype (Control warrior) as it spends a lot of turns, early and late, simply passing and having an abundance of mana. Now that i think about it, it's the only archetype that can play off curve and still dominate.

This game, as a whole, has too much removal. No matter how powerful a minion you drop, generally it only sees the light of one or two turns, and to me this is poor game design. I want my Legendary minion to wreak havoc and actually mean something, because, as it stands, there is no difference between dropping 8 mana, 8 health Rag, or 2 mana, 1 health Bloodmage. Each dies within a turn.

Also, Yogg should have been nerfed harder. There will still be tons of games completely decided by Yogg and his bullshit RNG. As i posted yesterday, i had two games in a row where an opponent's Yogg Shaodwstepped himself and then proceeded to wipe my full board. Ok, this won't happen now, but there will still be games decided by his retarded RNG. This is what they needed to get away from and they've basically only half assed it. What about Yogg casts X spells (random targets) that cost less than Y mana? Like the Servant, but scaled for the mana cost. The fact that Yogg can still cast Call of the Wild etc, just makes it retarded.

Anyways, wru Eternal beta... And wru ES:Legends... I've got money to be taken!!

Also, does Medivh become an auto-include in hunter decks now to fill the 8 slot? All possible 9 cost minions are damn solid, so CotW could get some added bonus from casting with Atiesh out.

thats... an interesting idea. I was thinking I'd transition more to a nzoth hunter list if it turned out the nerf to cotw was too much for my midrange hunter list, but maybe going heavier on removal and 'control' hunter could be a thing too. The nerf to abusive isn't gonna help that midrange hunter list either, seems small, but been tons of time abusive's 2 power mattered a lot.

Atiesh + animal companion is already decent value, and hunter has a lot of good spells that function as minions already. Secret hunt with medivh? yogg n load with medivh? Couple interesting ideas to explore.. that is, if I wasn't playing other games now

Enzee said:

thats... an interesting idea. I was thinking I'd transition more to a nzoth hunter list if it turned out the nerf to cotw was too much for my midrange hunter list, but maybe going heavier on removal and 'control' hunter could be a thing too. The nerf to abusive isn't gonna help that midrange hunter list either, seems small, but been tons of time abusive's 2 power mattered a lot.

Atiesh + animal companion is already decent value, and hunter has a lot of good spells that function as minions already. Secret hunt with medivh? yogg n load with medivh? Couple interesting ideas to explore.. that is, if I wasn't playing other games now

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I don't know. You would probably be removing Rag for Medivh and then that messes with your Barnes synergy.

? What list is running rag in the first place?

Most of them? I go by VS's decklists but Rag in a Barnes deck is kind of obvious surely? I had one game where an opponent playing hunter dropped Barnes and a Rag token on turn 4. 3 turns later I conceded because I didn't draw any removal and I couldn't kill the token.
8 damage to face or a minion on turn 4 can be pretty crippling.

Only Barnes decks are running Rag - with the hope that you get a 1/1 Rag on turns 3 or 4. Otherwise Rag is competing with CotW at 8 mana and that's not a good slot for him. In the current setting, Rag would be played on turn 9 or 10 in most cases, if you're holding CotW.

I look at it this way:

- I have CotW (at 9 mana), Medivh, and Rag in hand;
- It's turn 8;
- I drop Medivh over Rag every single time.

The only exception is if i'm going to die on the following turn regardless, unless i drop Rag and he hits face for lethal.

I was also thinking along the lines of N'Zoth Hunter for the future though, but i'm not sure of the viability.

Origin said:

The deck that i've been consistently losing to (ranks 1-3) has been control warrior. I think i've lost at least 10 matches, and each was a 20+ minute fest. It's fucking annoying.

Control warrior has so much removal, it has so much overall health, there really isn't shit many decks can do. And i'm playing the OP shaman fotm midrange deck. I guess mid-range hunter does well against it?

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I've been playing this Warrior deck: [Legend S30] 69% Rank 6-->Legend (incl. Tips on how to get Legend) - Hearthstone Decks

The only changes are I don't have Justicar Trueheart or Yogg so I put in Ragnaros and uhh... a Bog Creeper. Maybe I'll put in something else

It has absurd removal and health, but it's a big PITA to deal damage. I end up winning but takes forever.

EDIT: Just played again and won. Came down to Ragnaros making the insect die. Zoo Warlock that was almost out of cards.