Hearthstone

If they're going to nerf a deck, secret pally will come before patron. As broken as patron is (mostly due to warsong/frothing) over the entirety of the ladder it really only represents a smattering of players. Secret pally iseverywhere, these stats confirmed by Brode's statement on their internal stats. Not that I'm defending Brode. But I just see them getting fed up with secret pal first.

The elegant fix to MC is easy though, make it legendary. That would help a lot without completely neutering it. What doesn't seem so easy is how to handle the DE refunds on existing copies.

Nerfing Patron Warrior is also problematic because the real problem card is Thaurissan and that card can simply never be nerfed because it's not disenchantable.

Famm_sl said:

If they're going to nerf a deck, secret pally will come before patron. As broken as patron is (mostly due to warsong/frothing) over the entirety of the ladder it really only represents a smattering of players. Secret pally iseverywhere, these stats confirmed by Brode's statement on their internal stats. Not that I'm defending Brode. But I just see them getting fed up with secret pal first.

The elegant fix to MC is easy though, make it legendary. That would help a lot without completely neutering it. What doesn't seem so easy is how to handle the DE refunds on existing copies.

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They aren't going to turn it into a legendary card, it doesn't have a name.

It's not a hard fix though, make it cost more, make it only summon 3 secrets, there are plenty of ways to "fix it".

The Ancient_sl said:

They aren't going to turn it into a legendary card, it doesn't have a name.

It's not a hard fix though, make it cost more, make it only summon 3 secrets, there are plenty of ways to "fix it".

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Summon the secrets to hand IMO. Closes some avenues for using it but opens new ones, while slowing down the "bonus" of the card.

I've been playing some secret because I opened 2 challengers and yeah its good but not amazing. Its just easy to play. A 60%+ win rate is not possible especially now with the meta built to attack it. Not saying it doesn't need a nerf in some way mostly because its so brain dead but they haven't nerfed face hunter in a year so I doubt it will happen.

Xequecal_sl said:

Nerfing Patron Warrior is also problematic because the real problem card is Thaurissan and that card can simply never be nerfed because it's not disenchantable.

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lolwut

Guess Undertaker can never be nerfed either.

The Ancient_sl said:

They aren't going to turn it into a legendary card, it doesn't have a name.

It's not a hard fix though, make it cost more, make it only summon 3 secrets, there are plenty of ways to "fix it".

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Vaclav_sl said:

Summon the secrets to hand IMO. Closes some avenues for using it but opens new ones, while slowing down the "bonus" of the card.

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Not every legendary is "named" and the card's name "Mysterious Challenger" plus its flavor text and emotes all go for the anonymous aspect. All the other nerfs being suggested totally kill the card, which may be fine but if they want it to stay playable then making it legendary is the easiest way to bring it in line.

ex-genj_sl said:

I've been playing some secret because I opened 2 challengers and yeah its good but not amazing. Its just easy to play. A 60%+ win rate is not possible especially now with the meta built to attack it.

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I beg to differ but you may be right, I'll revisit this at the end of the season.

Gavinmad_sl said:

lolwut

Guess Undertaker can never be nerfed either.

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Really Emp Thau is no more "the problem" in patron than it is in any of the other decks that commonly run him. The problem is almost completely with Warsong Commander and especially the interaction with Frothing. Even charging Patrons themselves, despite being the namesake, are more realistic to counter. Drawing your whole deck while the opponent controls the board the entire game then blowing him up with two charging 24+/2's is the biggest bullshit factor in the deck. That situation is everything Blizzard has previously said they didn't like in past nerfs such as miracle/OTK giants/buzzard + hounds...it punishes you for playing any minions, is completely uninteractively one-sided, and involves single turn kills from the hand.

Its truly pathetic that nothing's been done, but since it doesn't fully dominate the overall meta population at all ranks, like miracle and hunter did, they don't give a shit.

I think of the two decks, Patron Warrior needs nerfing more. The big thing is that Patron Warrior is much more difficult to play and a lot of people have given up trying to learn it. But someone who knows how to play the deck is going to have a really easy time at it. It is SO hard to beat a Patron Warrior who knows what he/she is doing. And it's not fun in the slightest to be blown out for over 30 points of damage in one turn simply because you played a couple of minions to fuel their Frothings.

Secret Paladin is really powerful, really easy to play and is overly represented on the ladder right now. But it can be beaten. You can tech against it and play around their big turns. People just need to start learning to adapt to it. A good Patron Warrior is very difficult to beat.

Yeah, I'm not even saying one or the otherneedsa nerf per se, just which I think Bliz might actually adjust IMO.

We're back on the NERF patron train eh? Give it up, god damn.

No matter what changes are made there's still going to be shit that is over represented on ladder and that you guys hate and want nerfed. That's the fault of ladder and not the game or the decks or the cards. At the competitive level there is a host of viable classes and decks. Go watch the NA Championships. There's people running Not Patron and Not Secret Paladin and that qualified playing Not Patron and Not Secret Paladin.

Xequecal_sl said:

Nerfing Patron Warrior is also problematic because the real problem card is Thaurissan and that card can simply never be nerfed because it's not disenchantable.

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They could try giving it the Nat Pagle fix: triggers at the start of turn rather than the end.

Itzena_sl said:

They could try giving it the Nat Pagle fix: triggers at the start of turn rather than the end.

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I like that. It would pretty much kill it though.

I really don't get it. I've played magic off/on for damn near 20 years, and I've never faced a magic deck that I found as annoying as some of the hearthstone decks.
I've not been able to figure out what provokes the levels of aggravation when shit like sligh, necro, stasis or affinity never caused me to bat an eye.

edit: maybe sideboards are the perfect panacea/placebo.

You nailed it with your edit. Being able to bring in extra cards to possibly my counter a specific deck or at least letting you have the feeling of doing something against an annoying deck keeps your mental game afloat.

You've always been able to interact with your opponent to some reasonable extent in MTG. Hearthstone is derp derp derp derp.

Lasch_sl said:

edit: maybe sideboards are the perfect panacea/placebo.

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Commander Vimeseh_sl said:

You nailed it with your edit. Being able to bring in extra cards to possibly my counter a specific deck or at least letting you have the feeling of doing something against an annoying deck keeps your mental game afloat.

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Magic moved away from crushingly powerful hate cards years and years ago and for good reason. Cards like Gloom, Chill, Perish, Light of Day, and Circle of Protection were brutal. Sideoboards in Hearthstone would be just as bad or worse given the power of the game's situational cards. Being able to board in two copies of Kazan Mystic versus Freeze Mage prevents that deck from even existing unless it can completely transform post sideboard. Did your Handlock opponent sideboard out all his giants or not? Guess right and it's a double Big Game Hunter bonanza. Harrison Jones, Black Knight, Sacrificial Pact, popping out of sideboards wouldn't do anything positive for the game.

Instead of trying to shoehorn in Sideboards Ladder should be a multi-deck format that exactly mirrors the format for the Blizzard world championships. Fine, you lost game one versus Patron and you hate that deck. You won't be playing against it again in that match.

A just for fun post.

I agree with Arbitrary btw. I prefer the multi-deck format to the sideboard.

Not that one is 'good' or one is 'bad', just that I like the HS way.