Hearthstone

Famm

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Oh:

Knights of the Frozen Throne introduces free single-player Missions.
  • A new section of Missions unlocks each week until all the Missions are unlocked.
  • The Prologue and The Lower Citadel are available with the launch of Knights of the Frozen Throne.
  • Earn a free random Death Knight hero card just for facing the Lich King in the Prologue. Earn a Knights of the Frozen Throne card pack after completing each Mission section, for a total of 3.
  • Defeat the final Mission with all nine classes to earn a new Paladin hero!

Wonder if that will be all the freebie packs.

Dreadsteed nerf is live if you have any to dust.

Also:

  • Arena Rewards: Reduced variance of rewards in Arena. In particular, reward bags will no longer contain single, non-Golden Common cards.
  • Arena Draft Change – The first two sets of cards in a draft are now more likely to include synergy-based cards.
 
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Famm

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Oh, ok, also three packs just for logging in during launch. So that's nine when you include the arena packs, bringing me close to 100 with my gold. Last time I had 10K to spend, didn't quite get there for this one.
 
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TJT

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Oh, ok, also three packs just for logging in during launch. So that's nine when you include the arena packs, bringing me close to 100 with my gold. Last time I had 10K to spend, didn't quite get there for this one.

Seems I'll have like 60 packs out the gate.
 
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Ravishing

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I need to get a 8+ win arena run and do the dailies and I'll be around 10k gold. Might be 100 shy if dailies screw me, also depends how much I play regularly for the 10g/3win.

Should have ~160 packs to open
 
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Famm

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I kinda liked:

“Hearthstone will always be about brilliant people coming up with interesting strategies to win games,” said r/hearthstone Reddit user _theskystoast. “From getting a random Ragnaros shot on a key enemy minion to getting a random warrior-quest Ragnaros hero power shot on a key enemy minion.”
 
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Asshat wormie

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"Deep Dice lost the first Arena game against Pavel because it made a mistake by playing Barnes on turn four and pulling a 1/1 Fel Reaver onto the board. But this is what makes Deep Dice so special. In game two, when Deep Dice got to turn four, instead of making another mistake, it played Barnes, pulled a 1/1 Y’shaarj, and then a real Y’shaarj giving an easy win. It’s brilliant,” said Peters."

:D
 
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slippery

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So Fandral works differently now. It doesn't combine spells, it casts both of them. So wrath will hit a divine shield minion and pop the shield, then wrath it again

Edit: It does 3 first, then 1. If you hit an acolyte of pain with Wrath with Fandral up, the acolyte gets 2 draws, wrath gets 1 draw, no matter the hp on the acolyte
 
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Aaubert

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So Fandral works differently now. It doesn't combine spells, it casts both of them. So wrath will hit a divine shield minion and pop the shield, then wrath it again

Edit: It does 3 first, then 1. If you hit an acolyte of pain with Wrath with Fandral up, the acolyte gets 2 draws, wrath gets 1 draw, no matter the hp on the acolyte
Does that mean that cards like Druid of the Sabre makes combo beasts still, like the Tiger Form beast? Or does it make a Sabertooth Lion, and then a Sabertooth Panther?
 
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slippery

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Not sure, I didn't see it tested or test myself for that part.

For Wrath and Starfall you get double spell damage though, it applies to both parts.
 
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Famm

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Does that mean that cards like Druid of the Sabre makes combo beasts still, like the Tiger Form beast? Or does it make a Sabertooth Lion, and then a Sabertooth Panther?

I doubt it would, you're choosing one or the other "transform" that's essentially a buff to a base minion with those cards actually, not summoning one or the other minion. So it shouldn't change the beast druids just getting both buffs.

Obviously this went in with the change to make Fandral work with the DK hero power, but did they actually intend for spells to work like that now or was it a fuck up when they made the switch? Seems like it would have to be more deliberate. A lot of people always thought it should have worked that way with wrath in the first place, kinda made sense to me the old way too though.
 
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Mures

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The effect is definitely weaker than Medivh's, but his ability is automatic and Ati'esh is not. Hard to directly compare them.

his ability is instant but you still need to invest mana into affecting board, so kinda the same, except Medivh can get you 3 things more consistently, which is why I also think Medivh is stronger .

Yeah but Medivh doesn't have taunt, and you can potentially get the weapon destroyed before you get any benefit from it.

Yeah, they don't directly compare, but I think in terms of value they're probably pretty even; though just based on my experience with medivh and not having played with the death knight cards yet, I still think The Lick King may be better, - but with TLK having taunt in addition I think it makes better to the point that he both pushes medivh out and you may see him more frequently than you do Medivh now.

How many expensive spells can you afford to put into a deck? Ati'esh is typically summoning 2-3 mana cost minions 8+ turns into a game, sure you probably get one 5-7 spell off often, but likely not two, and a 10 mana cost is the dream and thats only if the weapon doesn't get destroyed. Nor does it affect the board state unlike many of the death knight cards, unless you happen to randomly get a charge/taunt minion, which may or may not make a difference.

Of course if he becomes too popular and it looks like there may be some other powerful taunt minions in the expansion we'll just see a return of tbk to the meta and thus TLK maybe less appealing.
 
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Ravishing

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Medivh only lives in 3 decks: Mage / Priest / Warlock... and Priest / Warlock are niche.

So yea, Lich King PROBABLY does see more play than Medivh, but I don't think he'll push out Medivh in Mage. Mage actually doesn't benefit too much from the LK spells, yea they are super powerful, but Mage can already board clear easily, they dont want to swing a weapon at anything huge, they dont want to discard any combo pieces, and they rarely have a big board to buff.
 
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Famm

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Yeah Medivh just has better synergy and strategy possibilities in current mage decks. Other classes should be able to use LK better.
 
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Ishad

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Finished the climb to rank 5 so now I can dick around for the first couple of weeks of the expansion. Think I played miracle rogue way more than any other deck in ungoro
 
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Mures

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I've played discover mage w/ medivh more than any other deck in un'goro. I play medivh because he's a fun card, not because I think he's good.
 
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Mahes

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Ahhh, was hoping for another free arena. Also, Brawl appears to not be working. Yay....
 
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Ravishing

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The Day before Hearthstone Freezes Over!

I know nobody wants to read my crap but I'm bored, so whatever!

Before Un'Goro I posted this:
Green = mostly right
Yellow = partially right
Red = completely wrong
White = neutral / not applicable
---
Some thoughts

Overall: Power level in general seems off the charts. Quests are insane and don't seem incredibly difficult to complete. Most games are going to be decided by who finishes their quest first. Hard to say if enough counters exist. The stream showcased every game finishing before turn 10... with trash-tier decks. Tons of taunts and Poisonous to hopefully delay games but will it be enough? Defense is rarely the correct play.

Druid

  • Jade Cancer seems like it'll be at an all-time High. The Druid Quest should work with Jades.
  • Barnabus+Kun Druid will be alive, OTK isn't dead.
  • Tyrantus still trash compared to these other 2 more mature decks, but the idea of 0 mana Tyrantus and gain 13 or 27 armor same turn is appealing.
Hunter
  • Aggro/Face is back, has multiple ways to prevent running out of steam, lots of deathrattles and beasts for stickyness
  • I personally don't think Dinomancy will be good. Hunter power is too crucial to finishing out games.
  • So many beasts, Jeweled Macaw is another RNG cancer card. Probably in every deck simply because it counts toward quest.
Mage
  • Freeze Mage isn't dead, their Quest is the ultimate cheese. Giants on board+Alex, Charge Minions, or just Antonidas+Fireball chains, plenty of ways to kill off opponent once Quest completes.
  • Burgly Bully is a great card for this Quest. I don't think Cabalist Tome is even necessary or ideal.
  • Even Arcanologist adds to the Freeze Mage theme...
  • I'm fairly certain that every mage deck will have a Quest package in it as a finisher. Lots of options on how to build, though.
Paladin
  • Buff Paladin actually seems decent if not OP. Consistency is questionable but Paladin have plenty of tools to go into late game, and this expansion is giving them two 2-drops which are sorely needed for the class.
  • Their weapon is expensive but seems good, but won't be in every deck obviously. Combos nicely with their legendary.
  • Galvadon is just insane and seems like it'll be completed fairly quickly most games. Should count on him having Stealth & Windfury practically every game...
  • Streetwise Investigator doesn't even seem like a good enough counter since it's 5 mana and likely won't have it and a removal in hand for the crystals you have available. Will need to use other methods: AoE Freeze, Devolve, Taunts, etc.
Priest
  • Is 40 health enough for this meta?! Somehow I doubt it.
  • Priest was looking strong but might end up being trash tier simply because they lack as much power as other heroes.
  • You can try some janky divine spirit+inner fire stuff with the Legendary
  • Priest seems weakest to me at first look
Rogue
  • Losing Conceal and Pillager, makes Miracle a lot worse if not extinct.
  • Vilespine Slayer seems like the winner here, going to be super annoying having this card continuously bounced & killing your shit over and over.
  • Seems like you either go Quest Rogue or go home. Maybe Jades or Miracle will exist, but doubtful.
Shaman
  • Losing a whole lot. Their early game isn't being replaced with anything as good as Trogg+TotemGolem.
  • They do have some of the strongest counters for what is entering the game with Devolve / AoE / Hex.
  • Aggro probably still exists, just slightly weaker early, but if they can get a turn 3 Unbound followed by turn 4 7/7 then have fun :D
Warlock
  • I think Discardlock and/or Zoo will be super strong again. Everything they got helps them out here. Not much demon support this time around.
Warrior
  • Control Warrior maybe back, but I have lots of doubts. They are losing Justicar and can't get infinite armor anymore.
  • Sulfuras is nice.. I don't see games lasting long enough for it to matter. Too many tokens & sticky stuff out there to play around it.
  • I really think Pirate Warrior is dead but maybe I'll be proven wrong. Too many taunts really screw up the deck already, plus extra weapon hate with Ooze, just seems bad.
  • I think Warrior is going to be pretty weak, like tier 3 or 4.

Prediction Summary:
Tier 1:
Druid
Paladin
Hunter
Warlock

Tier 2:
Shaman
Mage

Tier 3/4:
Priest
Rogue
Warrior

-----
So I was probably more right than wrong, even calling out Quest Rogue and Paladin, though I had no idea it'd be these versions of Paladin. I was convinced Galvadon would be OP. Tier list is so hard to guess obviously, I was completely wrong about Warlock, the others all fluctuate around tier 2-3 mostly.
----

With Frozen Throne, I've been tweaking decklists for a couple days now and here are my guesstimates:

Druid:
  • Jade Druid: They are getting even more tools to survive early game. Jades should continue to reign. I do not think Skulking Geist will be prominent enough to hurt Jade Druid. Even if it does make a (very few) decks, Jade Druid can still pack enough punch to win.

  • Aggro Druid also get more tools, a 2 mana 1/5 taunt OR 1/2 poisonous, tons of CHEAP high-health minions to protect their other stuff & then buff up. Aggro druid will be stronger for sure.

  • Druid DeathKnight is cheap enough to fit in practically every Druid deck, including aggro. They can hero power for 3 damage a turn, nuff said.

  • Full-on taunt deck likely doesn't work, but Hadronox may see play as a finisher in Big Druid & Jade Druid.

  • Big Druid still sees play, gets a little stronger, it has high win percentage against slower decks as well as Jade Druid. Suffers against Aggro, but maybe Gnash & Prince Valanar see play to give a little breather early on.
Hunter:
  • Hunter will be tough.Their existing tier 3 deck probably stays mostly in tact. They can slot in Bearshark to get some better board control. Everything else doesn't make too much sense or is too niche or expensive.

  • It'll be a struggle to find a new deck that works. They get Bloatbat & DeathKnight battlecry as very expensive board AoEs, which hunter have lacked, they can slot in some Lifesteal to heal, but it might all just be way too cumbersome or come way too late to be viable.

  • Secret Hunter may have the best chance at survival, perhaps a very strong Secret deck lurks.

  • I'll still try to make Quest Hunter work, but it is likely to be very inconsistent.
Mage:
  • Mage possibly get more viable decks focused on: Elemental / Grinder / Dragon. Mage could have 4-6 very different viable decks in the new meta.

  • Quest Mage may become a legitimate top-tier deck. Simulcrum prevents Dirty Rat from mostly screwing up the main plan, now he would HAVE to pull Antonidas. Pulling Sorcs wouldn't matter so much. Also Coldwraith for more draw, and Ghastly Conjurer helps complete quest sooner. Quest Mage is an absolute counter to control & slow decks.

  • Freeze Mage is already a Tier 2 deck and is getting a couple tools to assist with their plan. Coldwraith for more card draw, Ghastly Conjurer adds a 1 mana spell to hand which will become another Fireball & stall card.

  • Secret Mage is also a Tier 2 deck and do not get much at first glance. Glacial Mysteries doesn't seem viable while Arconologist exists. The new secret is more for value than Board Control. Secret Mage probably exists mostly in their current form with maybe a couple card differences. Many decks will be cutting Eater of Secrets during the testing phase.

  • Burn Mage is a Tier 4 deck right now and they don't appear to be getting many tools to assist with Burning... It's an Ice Expansion after all. This deck may just disappear entirely. The winrate is already atrocious and the new decks seem better & more fun.
Paladin:
  • Everyone is super high on Paladin right now simply because they are already a Tier 1 deck and it appears like they are getting the BEST Deathknight card - possibly the best card - in the entire set. Will this be another monumental prediction fail? I doubt it. Uther is just insane. Not only do you get an insane weapon but you also churn out 2/2 minions every turn that could just end the game. A 2/2 requires an actual resource to remove, they can't just be pinged off anymore (except by Druid/Warlock/Priest DK, of which Priest/Warlock will be infrequent). It's absolutely crazy pressure for 2 mana a turn. I do believe the 4 Horsemen will determine MANY games, either by outright winning it, or sucking up so many resources you just win anyway.

  • Most of the paladin decks will remain with just a few card swaps... They are already very diverse. Aggro, Mid-Range and Control variants will all exist.

  • Handbuff is the only deck that could be a newcomer, but still probably weaker than the more mature decks.

  • Divine Shield deck with Bolvar & new weapon will be garbage
Priest
  • This set brings a very diverse set of cards to Priest that are tough to figure out. Silence Priest is their best performing deck currently and they didn't get many tools to assist it.

  • Priest are getting 1 of the best minions in the set: Obsidian Statue. This card alone could be a build around for some very new and exciting decks.

  • Priest have a LOT of potential with a LOT of possible decks. What becomes meta always depends on the other classes. Slower decks mean a Control/Thief list become very strong. Aggro meta means Silence remains a strong deck. It seems like Kazakus & Quest Priest should be able to make a splash at first, but I am betting the Kazakus list doesn't make it too high on the tier list. Priest Deathknight is not strong enough to make it work any better. The OTK combos with Deathknight Anduin just won't work out. I also do not think Quest Priest sees much of a boon. There are many new deathrattles but very few are actually good.

  • I have the most hope for an "Eternal Servitude" list, which maybe is just part of the "Control" list. But only if the meta is slow enough.
Rogue
  • Will definitely keep seeing Miracle Rogue & variants as the main rogue identity.

  • Valeera, Doomerang and Shadowblade will be prominent.

  • Prince Valanar may make it into some lists, but not with Sherazin.

  • Thief Rogue may actually make a Tier list, with Shadowblade, Obsidian Shard, Doomerang, and Prince Valanar as healthy control & sustain tools.

  • I can't see a Jade or N'Zoth decks working

  • Thief or a sleeper C'Thun deck seems most likely to enter the scene.
Shaman
  • All of the new Freeze stuff is just silly and won't work out.

  • Evolve & Token lists will reign and get even stronger. Saronite Chain Gang is an awesome card for Evolve lists. Bloodlust will continue to reign. The Deathknight is just so good for evolve lists, losing totems hurts the swarm though. No more random taunt totems, as well as the other totems, are huge negatives for the Shaman. Might get tossed from lists after a while, having more minions is always preferred for the Bloodlust turn.

  • Water package could easily end up in these lists due to the new Draw card.

  • Elemental lists aren't given much support, will continue to not be good enough.
Warlock
  • Will they rise from the ashes? Is the DeathKnight card good enough? Possibly.

  • Drain Soul, Despicable Dreadlord, Defile, and DeathKnight Gul'Dan are all very good tools for the Warlock.

  • There is a Control list here somewhere. Their hero powers are the strongest in the game. Problem is.. all 3 are super strong... Draw Card, Deal3&Heal3, Summon a 6/6. What do?

  • While I think a list exists somewhere, it's going to have to manifest from somewhere special to be able to compete with all of the other classes (except Hunter).
Warrior
  • Move aside Pirate Warrior, Tempo is back. Control possibly back. Taunt gets stronger.

  • Pirate Warrior basically got nothing. The new Pirate is akin to Bittertide - It doesn't do shit when played. The new weapon is shit for Pirate. The Draw card COULD be an include, just to get those Arcanites into hand.

  • Blood Razor and Forge of Souls will be an auto-include in every single other Warrior deck. Getting your Weapons out of your deck is super important and gives you at least 4 turns of weapon removal starting on turn 3. It's absolute insanity.

  • Warrior are getting a lot and will be very strong. Pirate, Tempo, Taunt and Control may all be very viable... if anything, Pirate is getting weaker, but the fact Patches exists means it'll never die.


Tier List Predictions:

Tier 1:
Mage
Paladin
Warrior
--
Tier 2:
Druid
Shaman
Priest
--
Tier 3:
Rogue
--
Tier 4:
Hunter
Warlock
 
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