Home buying thread

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
especially for a fresh university grad just starting out in the working world who are presumably the people who would be buying the "entry" level houses. The city I live in isn't even among the most expensive here, Zürich and Geneva are on a whole other level.

Anything you can afford to rent you can also afford to buy, since after all you are paying the mortgage + costs + profit. If the only thing stopping you is the down payment then you need to live below your means for 5 years and save money.

"Fresh university grads" shouldn't be buying $1M apartments. Go live in a questionable neighborhood with a roommate (or wife) splitting the rent for a few years and save up.
 

Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
331
169
That's a good point Khane. I have one credit card, and I use it almost exclusively for online purchases. I pay cash for my daily purchases. My parents, who still live in Canada, have like 5 or 6. One that gives cash back for groceries, one for gas, etc. Can't think of anyone here who has multiple cards like that.
 

Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
331
169
That's the thing though Cad, if you don't want to live in the countryside then 1M$ is more or less where the prices start here. You could maybe get something super super shady for 800k but I've never seen anything in a city listed lower than that.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
That's a good point Khane. I have one credit card, and I use it almost exclusively for online purchases. I pay cash for my daily purchases. My parents, who still live in Canada, have like 5 or 6. One that gives cash back for groceries, one for gas, etc. Can't think of anyone here who has multiple cards like that.

I don't think it really matters how many cards you have if you game the rewards and pay them off each month. Obviously carrying revolving balances on multiple cards is extremely stupid if that's what they are doing, but just having the cards means nothing.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,635
14,384
Anything you can afford to rent you can also afford to buy

I'm not sure how you could say that. It's not even close to true, especially in Metropolitan areas. You think all the people renting in Manhattan, Brooklyn, LA, SF, etc could afford to buy? There are things like rent control in one form or another in almost every city in America. Just check your local HUD website.

You're also ignoring the fact that many buildings are split into smaller, more affordable units. Just because my tenant can afford the $1500/mo he pays me in rent doesn't mean he could afford the $2300/mo mortgage payment on my entire property.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
That's the thing though Cad, if you don't want to live in the countryside then 1M$ is more or less where the prices start here. You could maybe get something super super shady for 800k but I've never seen anything in a city listed lower than that.

Why not live out of the city in something affordable for a few years to save money? Your income will increase and your savings/investments will increase as you get older. Who says you should live in the middle of Bern as a fresh grad?
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
Why not live out of the city in something affordable for a few years to save money? Your income will increase and your savings/investments will increase as you get older. Who says you should live in the middle of Bern as a fresh grad?
Wages are relatively stagnant (even as you age and advance career wise) while housing prices have increased at an alarming rate even after that whole housing crash?
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
Wages are relatively stagnant (even as you age and advance career wise) while housing prices have increased at an alarming rate even after that whole housing crash?

That'd be news to every person I know who has made more as their career has advanced.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
43,263
111,022
I've been living in Switzerland for almost 8 years now, I'm originally from Canada. Back in Canada, my family owned our house and 99% of the people I knew growing up, their families also owned their houses. Here in Switzerland it's a different story. I know one person who owns their own place, everyone else rents. I think it's a combination of factors but the biggest one in my opinion is a 20% down payment is required for purchasing a home and the high cost of real estate here. For example, an 1180 square foot apartment in Bern in a decent but not great location was listed at 950,000 CHF which is 1,000,000 USD at current exchange rates. So you need 200k down for that apartment, if you want to start looking at detached houses you're starting at 1.5 mil with a corresponding 300k down payment. 300k is a shitload of money, especially for a fresh university grad just starting out in the working world who are presumably the people who would be buying the "entry" level houses. The city I live in isn't even among the most expensive here, Zürich and Geneva are on a whole other level.

Funny thing is though, no one seems to really care, renting is just normal for people here. It was a bit of a culture shock for me coming from Canada where so many people owned their own homes. My father used to like to say that renting was just paying some other guys mortgage, why not pay your own and build some equity. Perhaps the era of home ownership being so widespread in North America is coming to an end. You're getting to the stupid high prices like over here, and one more housing bubble bursting might just lead to 20% down being required there too. Will be interesting to see hwo things progress over the next few years in that respect.

I'm not going to pretend to understand European real estate markets. But in every country I've visited outside of Ukraine the price to purchase an apartment is just absurd. Even in smaller towns like Girona, Spain for example. A base flat there for a half million Euros there?

How? Every city I saw was like that. But Lviv, Ukraine was extremely affordable and just as nice as any other European city I've been to. Bizarre.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,635
14,384
That there are places in America with rent control? Sure. Do you think the landlord who bought the rent controlled place is losing money?

Likely not. They were probably purchased long before the building was rent controlled and have been owned outright for some time. Or were bought before the hipsters moved in and gentrified the place.

Brooklyn is a great example of that. Hipsters... the vanguard of high real estate prices. I need a hipster density app to know where the next big real estate market boom is going to happen so I can get in early.
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
Likely not. They were probably purchased long before the building was rent controlled and have been owned outright for some time. Or were bought before the hipsters moved in and gentrified the place.

Brooklyn is a great example of that. Hipsters... the vanguard of high real estate prices. I need a hipster density app to know where the next big real estate market boom is going to happen so I can get in early.

And if the building is rent controlled, what do you think that does to the purchase price when that property goes on the market? If a potential landlord knows he can't do anything to the building or raise the rents beyond a certain amount, that limits his upside, no? And limits the market value?
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,635
14,384
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

You said "If you can afford to rent you can afford to buy" and that statement is demonstrably false. I used rent control as one example of that.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

You said "If you can afford to rent you can afford to buy" and that statement is demonstrably false. I used rent control as one example of that.

I'm sure if you answer my questions and think through why I'm asking them, you'll understand why your premise is wrong.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,635
14,384
Cad you keep trying to argue an indefensible position. I'm not sure how you can't see that being able to afford one unit in a 20 unit building with 3 roommates doesn't mean you can afford the entire building.
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,914
51,019
Cad you keep trying to argue an indefensible position. I'm not sure how you can't see that being able to afford one unit in a 20 unit building with 3 roommates doesn't mean you can afford the entire building.

It's a good thing I never said that then!
 

Picasso3

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,333
5,323
Rent prices adjust to purchase price + overhead and profit imo.

If you are talking about a market where you can't rent or can't buy, then obviously the comparison gets difficult.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,635
14,384
Oh so now you're going to try to argue semantics? "I was merely saying that if you can afford to rent a 4 bedroom apartment with 3 other people that you can afford to buy that one bedroom plus a share of the other living space!"

K bud.