Home Improvement

Daidraco · Jul 9, 2022

Lanx said:
update,

who ties outdoor porch outlets to a 2nd floor bathroom? jfc

I would say that electric is probably the worst offender. Anyone with common sense can work with electric but God almighty, I think a lot of electricians try their best to make sure people call the same electrician back.

Erronius · Jul 9, 2022

Lanx said:
update,

who ties outdoor porch outlets to a 2nd floor bathroom? jfc

Depends. How old is the house?

The reasoning used to be: "What circuits do I *HAVE* to GFCI protect ----> How much would it cost to run separate circuits with separate GFCIs ----> Am I even required by current code to run separate circuits ----> I'll just put it all on one circuit!"

A lot of people who read the NEC are like "Why the fuck is this so complicated" but it's because unless you make something required, and write it like you're some sort of a lawyer, most electricians will do things as cheaply and lazily as possible.

So someone probably knew that 1) outdoor receptacles had to be protected, 2) bathroom receptacles had to be protected, and then tried to combine everything into 1 circuit. Why? To use fewer GFCIs and save a little money, LOL

Lanx · Jul 9, 2022

Erronius said:
Depends. How old is the house?

The reasoning used to be: "What circuits do I *HAVE* to GFCI protect ----> How much would it cost to run separate circuits with separate GFCIs ----> Am I even required by current code to run separate circuits ----> I'll just put it all on one circuit!"

A lot of people who read the NEC are like "Why the fuck is this so complicated" but it's because unless you make something required, and write it like you're some sort of a lawyer, most electricians will do things as cheaply and lazily as possible.

So someone probably knew that 1) outdoor receptacles had to be protected, 2) bathroom receptacles had to be protected, and then tried to combine everything into 1 circuit. Why? To use fewer GFCIs and save a little money, LOL

1992 at least 3 owners

wiring looks like it hasn't been touched, all grounds are wired with this crimp

also when i took over the house the breakers were all challengers, so i replaced them w/ eatons a while back.

Erronius · Jul 9, 2022

I used to use those splices. And I still have the crimper. I got really good at cutting them off w/o damaging the wire using a pair of dykes. but generally speaking they're were really only used in residential on grounds, like in your picture. They can replace wirenuts; you just have to cut the end off even, and there's some 'caps' that you push over the end that snap into place.

I do remember some municipalities hating them, because in their eyes they weren't 'removable' and they preferred being able to be able to untwist wirenuts.

But they were cheap!

Also, in your picture, I don't even think they used the actual crimper for these. A lot of the time people would just take their pliers and smash them in half, lengthwise, around the wires. Which is a shitty way to do it, IMHO.

My guess is, if your house was built in the 90s, that those original electricians were probably the ones to run your GFCI circuits like they did.

There's a theme here, and it's a cheap electrician.

Lanx · Jul 9, 2022

Erronius said:
I used to use those splices. And I still have the crimper. I got really good at cutting them off w/o damaging the wire using a pair of dykes. but generally speaking they're were really only used in residential on grounds, like in your picture. They can replace wirenuts; you just have to cut the end off even, and there's some 'caps' that you push over the end that snap into place.

I do remember some municipalities hating them, because in their eyes they weren't 'removable' and they preferred being able to be able to untwist wirenuts.

But they were cheap!

Also, in your picture, I don't even think they used the actual crimper for these. A lot of the time people would just take their pliers and smash them in half, lengthwise, around the wires. Which is a shitty way to do it, IMHO.

My guess is, if your house was built in the 90s, that those original electricians were probably the ones to run your GFCI circuits like they did.

There's a theme here, and it's a cheap electrician.

View attachment 421168

View attachment 421169

thats just a pic i pulled off online, but all the grounds did look like that actually, i've since removed them all and replaced em w/ wago's cuz of ocd

mkopec · Jul 9, 2022

My house is 1971 and there are no GFCI in any bathroom. Must have been a later code that required them. Only GFCI was the one outside but again every plug on the circuit after the GFCI was protected, which was a few plugs on the same wall in my master bedroom. So I split the GFCI off to be separated from the circuit. I have a feeling it was jsut a regular plug at some point which was replaced by GFCI by another homeowner and they just wired it the same as they saw the old one wired.

There is also other fuckery they did with circuits back in the 70s thats LOL worthy today. Like kitchen receptacles being on same circuit as family room. I learned the hard way when my computer was unfortunately on the same circuit as the microwave and it fried the fucking HDMI board on my TV that it was plugged into at the time. Thank god it was the only thing it fried.

My old house was a 60s build and it was even worse. But somehow they managed to keep all the kitchen shit in the kitchen.

BrutulTM · Jul 10, 2022

Lanx said:
update,

who ties outdoor porch outlets to a 2nd floor bathroom? jfc

In my house the bathroom and the back porch are both on the same circuit with a GFCI breaker. Then to make it extra confusing, somewhere down the line someone didn't know that was the case and installed a GFCI outlet in the bathroom.

When I moved in neither of those outlets were working. I figured the GFCI in the bathroom was bad so I took the porch outlet out and found that there was no juice in the wires. I went to the panel and found the GFCI breaker (only one in the panel) and reset it. To my surprise, both outlets started working.

Still haven't bothered to take out the one in the bathroom so I guess it's double protected.

Daidraco · Jul 11, 2022

So Im looking at a house that was built in 2001 to buy and rent out. The HVAC is a Siemens Zone Control and is malfunctioning. The house seems to be priced relatively ok. But I dont want to dive into this house and 15k of my budget go towards ripping out an old zone control and putting in even a basic central air system. The house has been on the market for just under a month at 330k and I should be able to rent it out for roughly 1600. Thoughts?

Intrinsic · Jul 11, 2022

Daidraco said:
So Im looking at a house that was built in 2001 to buy and rent out. The HVAC is a Siemens Zone Control and is malfunctioning. The house seems to be priced relatively ok. But I dont want to dive into this house and 15k of my budget go towards ripping out an old zone control and putting in even a basic central air system. The house has been on the market for just under a month at 330k and I should be able to rent it out for roughly 1600. Thoughts?

Can you get a home warranty thrown in with the close and have the HVAC replaced through that for "free?" If it is a rental I don't know the value of replacing it with anything but what the lowest bidder home warranty service company would use. Around here a 1-year warranty is a pretty standard throw in on any home sale.

Oblio · Jul 11, 2022

Daidraco said:
So Im looking at a house that was built in 2001 to buy and rent out. The HVAC is a Siemens Zone Control and is malfunctioning. The house seems to be priced relatively ok. But I dont want to dive into this house and 15k of my budget go towards ripping out an old zone control and putting in even a basic central air system. The house has been on the market for just under a month at 330k and I should be able to rent it out for roughly 1600. Thoughts?

If you think it is priced right, offer the asking price with the condition they provide seller concessions for you to replace the unit.

Do you have a Realtor?

Daidraco · Jul 11, 2022

Im a property manager for other people as well as myself, so I have to be a licensed realtor. But the property Im looking at is listed by a private seller, so I have no option with an affiliated realtor or real estate company.

Cannot go with a warranty that would include the central air because the issue is listed on the home inspection report. Worst case I walk away from it, but I feel like I could rent it out for the majority of the tax time, renovate some shit and flip it for a mint like Ive been doing. But I dont think anyone here wants to come out of pocket for a brand new central air system for a house this size.

Daidraco · Jul 11, 2022

Oblio said:
If you think it is priced right, offer the asking price with the condition they provide seller concessions for you to replace the unit.

Do you have a Realtor?

Basically saying, since its a private seller - I can try to low ball him for the "central air repair" but from my experience, people like this dont budge. "I know what I got buddy!"

Oblio · Jul 11, 2022

Daidraco said:
Basically saying, since its a private seller - I can try to low ball him for the "central air repair" but from my experience, people like this dont budge. "I know what I got buddy!"

Bro with the recent rate hikes the buyer pool has diminished greatly. How long would this house have been on the market 3 months ago? Unless this guy is a Realtor, an Appraiser or Slum Lord he knows Jack shit and Jack just left town.

Hateyou · Jul 12, 2022

Daidraco said:
Basically saying, since its a private seller - I can try to low ball him for the "central air repair" but from my experience, people like this dont budge. "I know what I got buddy!"

Meh, been on the market a while, rates have skyrocketed, people stopped buying. You’re in a better bargaining position than he is. “I know what I got” is probably right. He knows that no one wants to buy at his asking price and deal with the HVAC…otherwise he would have sold the week he listed it, market was on fire three months ago.

BrutulTM · Jul 12, 2022

Can't you have someone look at it and tell you would would be required to fix it? Seems like both you and the owner would benefit from knowing that.

OU Ariakas · Jul 12, 2022

Daidraco said:
So Im looking at a house that was built in 2001 to buy and rent out. The HVAC is a Siemens Zone Control and is malfunctioning. The house seems to be priced relatively ok. But I dont want to dive into this house and 15k of my budget go towards ripping out an old zone control and putting in even a basic central air system. The house has been on the market for just under a month at 330k and I should be able to rent it out for roughly 1600. Thoughts?

I assume since you are flipping it that you the rental income is just to alleviate the amount that you pay out of pocket until it is time to flip, correct? I only ask because my rental philosophy is to get as close to 1% of purchase price per month in rent as possible and you are at less than half of that. I threw the numbers into a calculator and picked a state with income and property taxes to try and get an idea at what your monthly payment would look like while you held it and your rental amount is under water.

Things change considerably if you are putting down 20% to avoid PMI; but that is a fuck ton of money to have tied up in the house for an indeterminant amount of time.

Daidraco · Jul 12, 2022

BrutulTM said:
Can't you have someone look at it and tell you would would be required to fix it? Seems like both you and the owner would benefit from knowing that.

I am. I should have noted that I looked and found out about it yesterday. Im not going to trust what the owner says.

OU Ariakas said:
I assume since you are flipping it that you the rental income is just to alleviate the amount that you pay out of pocket until it is time to flip, correct? I only ask because my rental philosophy is to get as close to 1% of purchase price per month in rent as possible and you are at less than half of that. I threw the numbers into a calculator and picked a state with income and property taxes to try and get an idea at what your monthly payment would look like while you held it and your rental amount is under water.

View attachment 421558

Things change considerably if you are putting down 20% to avoid PMI; but that is a fuck ton of money to have tied up in the house for an indeterminant amount of time.
View attachment 421560

I go off general neighborhood data for rent figures, but you're not wrong. Im planning on 2600, not 1600 - guess I fat fingered it. Even at the interest rate I can get for the remaining loan balance, $2600 is just barely carrying the rest of the note.

The general question was just really if anyone had any experience with an old Siemens zone control system. The earliest I can get my own HVAC guy to look at it is beginning of next week.

Oblio · Jul 12, 2022

Daidraco said:
I am. I should have noted that I looked and found out about it yesterday. Im not going to trust what the owner says.

I go off general neighborhood data for rent figures, but you're not wrong. Im planning on 2600, not 1600 - guess I fat fingered it. Even at the interest rate I can get for the remaining loan balance, $2600 is just barely carrying the rest of the note.

The general question was just really if anyone had any experience with an old Siemens zone control system. The earliest I can get my own HVAC guy to look at it is beginning of next week.

Here is what I use for my Rental Data.

Rentometer: House and Apartment Rental Rate Comps

Paying too much for rent or charging too little? Get rental comps and find apartments with Rentometer.

www.rentometer.com

TJT · Jul 14, 2022

Anyone familiar with HVAC here?

In June we noticed that the system in our house was acting up. Not cooling as powerfully as before. Had a dude come out and service it. Said it was working fine. Checked everything and tuned it up. Worked better after that. It shit the bed last night so called the guy back up. He refilled the coolant which is something I've never done in my 6 years in this house. House and system are now about 13 years old.

He said there may be a leak or I may need to replace the whole thing. Thoughts?

Dandai · Jul 14, 2022

TJT said:
Anyone familiar with HVAC here?

In June we noticed that the system in our house was acting up. Not cooling as powerfully as before. Had a dude come out and service it. Said it was working fine. Checked everything and tuned it up. Worked better after that. It shit the bed last night so called the guy back up. He refilled the coolant which is something I've never done in my 6 years in this house. House and system are now about 13 years old.

He said there may be a leak or I may need to replace the whole thing. Thoughts?

I’m not an HVAC expert, but the way they work is by highly pressurizing coolant in a closed loop and pumping it around between the inside and outside in order to move the heat where you want it. I don’t know for sure that there’s no other explanation, but if you need more coolant then it seems to me you definitely have a leak. My understanding is it’s quite difficult and costly to locate a leaky coolant line and if the leak was caused by age/oxidation, you’re better off getting a brand new unit.

13 years isn’t terribly long but I think 15 years is life expectancy for HVAC units.

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Daidraco

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Erronius

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Lanx

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