Homeland

i think quinn watching brody pray in the woods was hinting at something. maybe it was reassurance of brody's loyalty to nazir.

Implausibility of the bomb aside, wouldn't basically the entire government be at the memorial for the VP?

I think the fact that they left so much out of Brody and Nazir's last moments pretty much verifies that Brody was in on it. Some shit went down at that meeting that they don't want to reveal until next season and we'll all be like "OH SHIT" or whatever.

Ya, that is what is odd. You would figure a funeral for a VP would be a much bigger affair and have people like the president there + tons of congressmen.

BrutulTM_sl said:

I'm sure there would be a big funeral for the VP but I thought this particular service was just for the CIA people who knew him.

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That's why it doesn't make much sense. The service at the CIA would have to happen after the funeral. Presumably the VP's wife would be busy dealing with the actual funeral and not have time to attend a memorial until after the funeral. If I'm Nazir, I have Brody wear the (still unaccounted for) suicide vest to the actual funeral. Brody as a close friend of the VP would be near the VP's family and President, Supreme Court Justices and other Cabinet members. Plus there would be live TV coverage. That's a more dramatic attack than a car bomb at the CIA.

Stosh_sl said:

That's why it doesn't make much sense. The service at the CIA would have to happen after the funeral. Presumably the VP's wife would be busy dealing with the actual funeral and not have time to attend a memorial until after the funeral. If I'm Nazir, I have Brody wear the (still unaccounted for) suicide vest to the actual funeral. Brody as a close friend of the VP would be near the VP's family and President, Supreme Court Justices and other Cabinet members. Plus there would be live TV coverage. That's a more dramatic attack than a car bomb at the CIA.

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A massive car bomb goes off at the CIA and we are getting caught up over whether the memorial was before or after the funeral... really? Also, there is even a line in the show that Nazir's hatred is first and foremost for the CIA so the bomb being there means more to him. Also, we have no idea if Brody was in on it so who is to say Nazir could even get Brody to wear the suicide vest. They show Brody parking his car in a parking lot, not in front of the building.

http://www.grantland.com/podcasts<---- Podcast with Alex Gansa, showrunner of Homeland, and Andy Greenwald.

I think one of the unwritten rules of Homeland is that the POTUS is not part of the fiction.

I wonder if he will be cast for season 3 though with the VP out of the picture.

The memorial at the CIA made sense because he was the ex-head of the service and if you listened to the eulogy (or at least the part that Estes managed before joining him) in the Homeland universe the VP had made some radical changes during his tenure. Fortress America and all that which probably explains why the CIA is getting up to its shenanigans on US soil.

Never mind which is a more dramatic target, Nazir hated the VP so deeply for killing his son he spent 10 years formulating and preparing his plan. This alone trumps any other argument regarding the location chosen to blow up people.

I was really hoping Brody would die this season and they would do a new main character every season or two, someone maybe introduced in the previous season.

BoldW_sl said:

Never mind which is a more dramatic target, Nazir hated the VP so deeply for killing his son he spent 10 years formulating and preparing his plan. This alone trumps any other argument regarding the location chosen to blow up people.

I was really hoping Brody would die this season and they would do a new main character every season or two, someone maybe introduced in the previous season.

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More like 5, and his plan went belly up when the vest didn't work in S1 and then Brody caught feelings. So he planned this bombing in like a year. And it is completely unthinkable that it could have been carried out, but hey, it is tv so whatever. The characters are what drive the show moreso than the technical details so I can let that shit slide.

Why in the world Quinn would suddenly care about offing a terrorist, or Carrie would be so completely fucking stupid as to not believe Brody was in on the bombing, these are the things that detract from the show for me.

I don't know about you guys but I fucking cringe at the whole Brody/Carrie romance and every scene involving it. It just seems so unbelievable after all the crazy shit each of them has pulled and been through. That's leaving aside a lot of the S2 plot details since those require some serious suspension of disbelief to begin with.

BrutulTM_sl said:

Quinn knew that the CIA director wanted Brody killed to cover his own ass and not because he really thought he was a threat. If he has a conscience it doesn't seem all that odd that he would have a problem with that.

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He's basically a professional assassin. God knows how many people he has killed and on what evidence. Or how many operations he has been a part of. How many innocents are dead as a result of those ops.

Estes had selfish motivations, sure. but Brody is a TERRORIST. He strapped on a suicide vest, said his gibberish prayers, and tried to kill like the entire executive branch. I just cannot believe that Quinn would give two shits.

chaos_sl said:

Why in the world Quinn would suddenly care about offing a terrorist, or Carrie would be so completely fucking stupid as to not believe Brody was in on the bombing, these are the things that detract from the show for me.

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I think those two things we're the best parts of season 2.

Carrie letting Brody go makes sense to me. Her doing anything else doesn't really make sense. This is the woman who went to insane lengths to illegally spy on Brody (putting her entire career and more at risk) because she /knew/ (but couldn't prove or even reasonably explain to anyone else) that he was a terrorist. And a million other examples where she does something "stupid" because her gut is telling her the truth isn't what the basic facts point to. That's just the character. She's infuriating at times but effective (and that's a stereotype we've all seen a million times in fiction and real life).

Quinn telling Estes no is what made that character realistic. Before that scene I really thought he was the most boring character on the show. Couldn't figure out why he was around except to advance the plot. Once he turned down Estes his previous behavior made a bit more sense to me. Like why he always seemed to let Carrie on an insanely long leash or took her seriously when everyone else was probably thinking "get this crazy bitch out of here." It turned out he wasn't a simple murderer-for-hire and there were some glaring signs of that all along the way. Estes missed that.

Those two things made those characters and the show a hell of a lot more interesting and complex than the alternatives.

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On a broader note, I think season 2 was pretty damn good overall. It was just marred by stupid fucking scenes like Abu Nazir in the tunnel. That scene and a few like it just went way too far. It was stupidly obvious what would happen and the setup was just asking for too much suspension of disbelief.

Anyway, it seems like the biggest criticism of the show here is that the security around the CIA isn't as effective as it should be. And it's obviously not. Just about every other aspect of the show is solid, however, so I don't really see how people are so bent out of shape. I don't really want to watch a show where the Carrie character was effectively kept on a leash, where everyone important sat behind a desk all day and the big bad guy fell to a drone-strike/2am raid led by people we've never heard of. As an audience member you have to give at least a little bit for a show like this to work.

foddon_sl said:

I don't know about you guys but I fucking cringe at the whole Brody/Carrie romance and every scene involving it. It just seems so unbelievable after all the crazy shit each of them has pulled and been through. That's leaving aside a lot of the S2 plot details since those require some serious suspension of disbelief to begin with.

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I'm a bit different, where you cringe I vomit.

Also the Nazir in the tunnel episode was completely awful.

alex gansa confirmed brody wasn't behind the bombing and that neither saul nor galvez is the mole. i'm curious if it's someone we've seen before.

Well, I don't know if I would say "confirmed", but he did talk about scenario's as if those things were true. He did preface everything he talked about with a disclaimer. I assume your talking about the Grantland Podcast?