How much real money have MMOs made you?

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Evernothing

Evernothing

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I'm guessing he means because anyone who had already RMT'd duped items, or converted their duped items to non-traceable gold didn't get hit?

In reality, sure some RMT/Dupers got away clean if their duped item stock was low enough, but you can bet that more than 90% of the guys with houses stocked to the tits with dupes, were dupers.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Evernothing said:
I'm guessing he means because anyone who had already RMT'd duped items, or converted their duped items to non-traceable gold didn't get hit?

In reality, sure some RMT/Dupers got away clean if their duped item stock was low enough, but you can bet that more than 90% of the guys with houses stocked to the tits with dupes, were dupers.
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Seems like he's saying there were dupers who were good guys or some shit who ended up losing legit items.

Who the fuck knows? Whatever he meant it was retarded
 
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Fight

Fight

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Mrniceguy said:
Result is basically the people that cheated for IRL money got to cash out.
The people that felt like they had to cheat or be at a competitive disadvantage lost all legit items.

Not a fan. Punishes the wrong group.
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I don't think you read the article or my TLDR. They handled it, the exact opposite of what you just said.

The mass-scale duper's are the ones that got all their shit deleted and banned. The Little Timmy's that bought their duped shit all kept their duped shit.
 
M

Mrniceguy

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Fight said:
I don't think you read the article or my TLDR. They handled it, the exact opposite of what you just said.

The mass-scale duper's are the ones that got all their shit deleted and banned. The Little Timmy's that bought their duped shit all kept their duped shit.
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Not saying the "Little Timmy's" did.

People duped. If they sold those items for IRL money. They get to keep that IRL money. These players give no fucks about being banned they're happy about getting that IRL cash.

Other players see/here players duping. See/here those players are getting away with duping. Think guess i gotta dupe also because otherwise i "fall behind". These people are pissed when they get banned, because the only reason they cheated is they saw those RMTers getting away with it.

A lot of people will only cheat if they see others getting away with cheating. It encourage players that wouldn't normally cheat to cheat. It's little similar to entrapment and i don't think it's a good way of handling things.

EQ had something similar happen a few years back with "Claimgate" and it was handle this way. Really dumb IMO.
 
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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Mrniceguy said:
Not saying the "Little Timmy's" did.

People duped. If they sold those items for IRL money. They get to keep that IRL money. These players give no fucks about being banned they're happy about getting that IRL cash.

Other players see/here players duping. See/here those players are getting away with duping. Think guess i gotta dupe also because otherwise i "fall behind". These people are pissed when they get banned, because the only reason they cheated is they saw those RMTers getting away with it.

A lot of people will only cheat if they see others getting away with cheating. It encourage players that wouldn't normally cheat to cheat. It's little similar to entrapment and i don't think it's a good way of handling things.

EQ had something similar happen a few years back with "Claimgate" and it was handle this way. Really dumb IMO.
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Wait, are you just arguing for the lesser of two evils? The lesson here, which you seem to be missing, is to not fucking cheat.
 
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alavaz

alavaz

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Mrniceguy said:
Not saying the "Little Timmy's" did.

People duped. If they sold those items for IRL money. They get to keep that IRL money. These players give no fucks about being banned they're happy about getting that IRL cash.

Other players see/here players duping. See/here those players are getting away with duping. Think guess i gotta dupe also because otherwise i "fall behind". These people are pissed when they get banned, because the only reason they cheated is they saw those RMTers getting away with it.

A lot of people will only cheat if they see others getting away with cheating. It encourage players that wouldn't normally cheat to cheat. It's little similar to entrapment and i don't think it's a good way of handling things.

EQ had something similar happen a few years back with "Claimgate" and it was handle this way. Really dumb IMO.
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Jesus, are you 4 lol? Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
 
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DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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You guys are being a little obtuse. He's basically just saying the druglords got away with their profits while the street dealers got the prison time.
 
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OneofOne

OneofOne

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Yes because they will ALWAYs get away with it once the PP purchase goes through. You cant stop them. You can mainly try and stop the demand.
 
M

Mrniceguy

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DickTrickle said:
You guys are being a little obtuse. He's basically just saying the druglords got away with their profits while the street dealers got the prison time.
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It's like they knew who the druglord was when he was a small time dealer. But instead of busting him when he was a small time dealer they knowing let him deal crack for 10 years and build an empire. Then they busted him, but only gave him community service and he gets to keep his fortunes in overseas accounts, while his street dealers are all serving 10 years. These people trying to act like i'm defending his street dealers when really i'm saying how about stopping him when he was a small time dealer before 100s of other get involved.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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Maybe because its worth catching more of them, so you know which emails/IPs/MACs/CC billing info/ PP accounts to go after in the future? It also lets you discover the patterns of behavior that definatively show RMT.
 
M

Mrniceguy

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OneofOne said:
Maybe because its worth catching more of them, so you know which emails/IPs/MACs/CC billing info/ PP accounts to go after in the future? It also lets you discover the patterns of behavior that definatively show RMT.
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Yeah who cares about the 10000s of dupes making the server shit right. What's important is you bust other people down the line and punish them all "equally"
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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You are looking at this from an entirely different angle than a company would, friend, but I've said my piece.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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DickTrickle said:
You guys are being a little obtuse. He's basically just saying the druglords got away with their profits while the street dealers got the prison time.
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Except they didn't? They all got banned, some just made more profit than others.

It's a ridiculous "had to dupe or fall behind" idea. Fall behind in what? RMTing? Have to make as much cash as other people?

Nah, fuck all of 'em
 
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DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Ambiturner said:
Except they didn't? They all got banned, some just made more profit than others.

It's a ridiculous "had to dupe or fall behind" idea. Fall behind in what? RMTing? Have to make as much cash as other people?

Nah, fuck all of 'em
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Yeah, I don't agree that cheating is acceptable because others were. I do think it's true that unchecked cheating leads to more people cheating (see SEQ use in EQ), but that still doesn't absolve them.

And reading the article now, I see that they didn't just ban anyone who had a duped object since they could be bought and sold by non-dupers. They had a particular threshold and only banned those who had over that amount. That's pretty reasonable. Even back then, it's hard to believe that anyone really thought duping an object was a fine and intended interaction with the game.

It also doesn't seem like they intentionally waited a long time to deal with them -- there was coding and management and CS layers to deal with before it could finally be done. It's just that they didn't actually discover the dupe until it was incredibly widespread. The cat was already out of the bag.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Mrniceguy said:
It's like they knew who the druglord was when he was a small time dealer. But instead of busting him when he was a small time dealer they knowing let him deal crack for 10 years and build an empire. Then they busted him, but only gave him community service and he gets to keep his fortunes in overseas accounts, while his street dealers are all serving 10 years. These people trying to act like i'm defending his street dealers when really i'm saying how about stopping him when he was a small time dealer before 100s of other get involved.
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What the fuck is the 10 year sentence supposed to represent in this retarded analogy?

They busted everyone the same, just because some people knew about the dupe longer doesn't mean you let everyone else get away with it.

Like really, what the fuck is wrong with your brain that any of this makes sense to you?
 
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M

Mrniceguy

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Ambiturner said:
Fall behind in what?
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Gear ect.

Ambiturner said:
What the fuck is the 10 year sentence supposed to represent in this retarded analogy?

They busted everyone the same, just because some people knew about the dupe longer doesn't mean you let everyone else get away with it.

Like really, what the fuck is wrong with your brain that any of this makes sense to you?
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People dupe for different reasons. Some because they want cash IRL, some because they wants stuff for themselves in game. For the people that wanted cash IRL losing their in game stuff means nothing. For the people that want in game stuff losing that stuff means something. The punishment isn't equal it's much more harsh for the people that care about the in game stuff. It's like having 2 kids, 1 stays inside all day playing video games and the other goes out all day and plays sports with his friends. They do something stupid and you punish them by grounding them to their room for a week. For the kid that stays in and plays video games all day the punishment doesn't fucking matter. The punishment might seem the "same" but really it isn't.

For like the 3rd time. Nobody said they should be allowed to get away with it. I just think it's better to not let the problem get bigger and to deal with it while it's smaller.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Mrniceguy said:
Gear ect.



People dupe for different reasons. Some because they want cash IRL, some because they wants stuff for themselves in game. For the people that wanted cash IRL losing their in game stuff means nothing. For the people that want in game stuff losing that stuff means something. The punishment isn't equal it's much more harsh for the people that care about the in game stuff. It's like having 2 kids, 1 stays inside all day playing video games and the other goes out all day and plays sports with his friends. They do something stupid and you punish them by grounding them to their room for a week. For the kid that stays in and plays video games all day the punishment doesn't fucking matter. The punishment might seem the "same" but really it isn't.

For like the 3rd time. Nobody said they should be allowed to get away with it. I just think it's better to not let the problem get bigger and to deal with it while it's smaller.
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So the devs owe it to the cheaters who cheated less than others, who are the real victims here?

Honestly don't understand how you can say they got punished unfairly just because some people cheated more. The devs don't have to follow some sliding scale where they just determine who the cheatingest cheater is and base everyone's penalty on them.

You cheat? Fuck you, you're gone
 
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Pogi.G

Pogi.G

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Wasn't an MMO, and kind of sort of made money in a way that I didn't spend it. Waaaaaay back in the day AOL had a game called Splatterball, and they charged $2 an hour to play. To make the story short, I racked up a little over $100 of extra charges in a month. I think I was around 14 at the time, and my parents were super pissed as you can imagine, and I got blocked. I managed to get a hold of some corporate AOL account logins, and I used those to play an ungodly number of hours over about a two-year period. I quit that when EQ came out.
 
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Nemesis

Nemesis

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Pogi.G said:
Wasn't an MMO, and kind of sort of made money in a way that I didn't spend it. Waaaaaay back in the day AOL had a game called Splatterball, and they charged $2 an hour to play. To make the story short, I racked up a little over $100 of extra charges in a month. I think I was around 14 at the time, and my parents were super pissed as you can imagine, and I got blocked. I managed to get a hold of some corporate AOL account logins, and I used those to play an ungodly number of hours over about a two-year period. I quit that when EQ came out.
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Splatterball, Magestorm, Gemstone, and Dragonrealms were crazy fun back in those mid-90s "pay-per hour" AOL days.

Of course we used tons of promo floppy discs with 10 free hours, but that only gets ya a couple of days, and we were like teenage gamer crackheads.

My buddy and I used AOHell to spam chatrooms and phish for peoples AOL account details and used those for our connection time when playing.
We also phished for CC#s and used those for all sorts of fun stuff like Columbia House CD subscriptions and electronics. We didn't think twice about delivering them all to his house.
We were the first people in our school with a CD burner, and we'd buy and burn all of the new music and games releasing each week. Made a little mint for ourselves at the time.

The same buddy is currently a very successful and famous corporate executive.
 
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