How would you re-socialize MMOs?

Muligan_sl said:

I have heard from several people that Georgeson gets a lot of praise internally at SoE because of his vision with SoEmote.

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Of course he does, the greasy shitball is their boss. SOEmote is a 'neat' idea, but it's also a stupid and worthless idea.

Grouping was still required in WoW once you got to top levels and there was still zero socializing outside of ventrillo. When I was playing during WotLK I remember running a great number of queued heroics with literally nothing said in group.

That's still how it is mostly, people will usually say hi if you say hello at the start, after that it's all business. For some reason no one will ever speak/respond in scenarios though (3 man dungeons). It's kind of weird.

Juice_sl said:

Grouping was still required in WoW once you got to top levels and there was still zero socializing outside of ventrillo. When I was playing during WotLK I remember running a great number of queued heroics with literally nothing said in group.

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That's because it's so easy you didnt communication, and the dungeon finder of course. I remember in TBC trying to befriend people simply to have a reliable group to do heroics and shit with on new characters

Last time I played WOW for more than a few hours (WOTLK), I remember going after certain rewards from quests and dungeons as I leveled. They were mostly weapons though. I had a clear progression as I hit max level. Then at max there were goals and shit.

Anyway, the way WOW did things with gear got worse over time. They just through crap at you and it was mostly useless.

It's why I'm kinda of looking forward to Wildstar which will probably be my last go with a DIKU MMO. With their module system for gear, even trash gear is useful to break down and use the parts to customize your stats.

Of course there's no talking - when do you have time to type? Modern hotbutton MMOs you're constantly moving or doing your rotation. You don't have time to type. And since the whole point of the game is getting the better gear, and you want the gear faster, the faster you run the dungeons the better it gets. It's not so much that people don't want to chat,t here's just not time to, especially when the time would sacrifice the time getting to the real goal.

I know we've all been in this circular discussion though. Slower combat/gameplay would give time to socialize, but then people are going to complain about that because it's not as engaging as whatever single-player game they were playing beforehand. I actually did a good bit of chatting in dungeons / FATE groups thanks to FFXIV's 2.5 GCD, and people rail on that all the time. Either way people are going to bitch.

Just gotta make the game that someone is passionate about that meets their vision, and let the players that love it play it. Games designed to make money as the primary goal will show it.

If you guys really have a desire to chat with strangers, then just do it. There is nothing stopping you honestly. Since you guys like to use WOW as an example, most of the fights in normal dungeons are so fucking easy all you really need to do is autoattack every once in a while. There is plenty of time to chat.

Unless you suck at typing.

Bruman_sl said:

Of course there's no talking - when do you have time to type? Modern hotbutton MMOs you're constantly moving or doing your rotation. You don't have time to type. And since the whole point of the game is getting the better gear, and you want the gear faster, the faster you run the dungeons the better it gets. It's not so much that people don't want to chat,t here's just not time to, especially when the time would sacrifice the time getting to the real goal.

I know we've all been in this circular discussion though. Slower combat/gameplay would give time to socialize, but then people are going to complain about that because it's not as engaging as whatever single-player game they were playing beforehand. I actually did a good bit of chatting in dungeons / FATE groups thanks to FFXIV's 2.5 GCD, and people rail on that all the time. Either way people are going to bitch.

Just gotta make the game that someone is passionate about that meets their vision, and let the players that love it play it. Games designed to make money as the primary goal will show it.

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There is room for both types of games... my complaint is that most MMOs since the 04 era have been designed from a solo centric + Lobby + instance ( pvp or dungeon ) + action oriented design.

I like those, they are fun at times but I do miss the staple MMO of a world I just want to be in, whatever I am doing ( crafting, exploring, questing, chatting etc etc etc ).. so hopefully we get a fresh one of those at some point soon. RIFT ( i actually loved RIFT leveling ) was close I must say, but the content was just not there for a long stay.

Draegan_sl said:

If you guys really have a desire to chat with strangers, then just do it. There is nothing stopping you honestly. Since you guys like to use WOW as an example, most of the fights in normal dungeons are so fucking easy all you really need to do is autoattack every once in a while. There is plenty of time to chat.

Unless you suck at typing.

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Off topic, @Draegan have you heard anything about ArchAge NA out of trion ? I have heard nothing in a while...

I've got nothing, and the guy I knew that was close to the project got fired in the last run of firings. Last I heard they were in the process of localizing everything.

Draegan_sl said:

If you guys really have a desire to chat with strangers, then just do it. There is nothing stopping you honestly. Since you guys like to use WOW as an example, most of the fights in normal dungeons are so fucking easy all you really need to do is autoattack every once in a while. There is plenty of time to chat.

Unless you suck at typing.

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I think the point is that chatting needs to flow naturally from the game, not something that you 'just do if you want to', which just sounds like it was meant obnoxiously. This happens to a degree by virtue of the game not being that user friendly. If everything is accessible and convenient without others assistance then you are just not going to make the same connections.

If my goal was to just chat people up I would go to any number of social networking services. If my goal is to play a game, then end up meeting and talking to people because I just don't know what the fuck is going on or where to go or what to do, and I end up needing their help when I'm in a bind, and end up making strong ties with them because of the solid memories forged by such a play experience, well, then I turn to mmo's - or atleast what they used to be.

When you say something like 'if you want to chat just go ahead nothing's stopping you' it just seems like you're completely oblivious to what used to be good about these games or you're intentionally being dismissive.

And last time I played wow it still was a hell of a lot of button mashing. I don't think shooting the shit while waiting for frenzied to spawn is really the high point of socialization from eq but it definitely isn't something you can do as easily in the faster paced mmos. This isn't to say that the slower pace in and of itself is superior.

Pasteton_sl said:

I think the point is that chatting needs to flow naturally from the game, not something that you 'just do if you want to', which just sounds like it was meant obnoxiously. This happens to a degree by virtue of the game not being that user friendly. If everything is accessible and convenient without others assistance then you are just not going to make the same connections.

If my goal was to just chat people up I would go to any number of social networking services.If my goal is to play a game, then end up meeting and talking to people because I just don't know what the fuck is going on or where to go or what to do, and I end up needing their help when I'm in a bind, and end up making strong ties with them because of the solid memories forged by such a play experience, well, then I turn to mmo's - or atleast what they used to be.

When you say something like 'if you want to chat just go ahead nothing's stopping you' it just seems like you're completely oblivious to what used to be good about these games or you're intentionally being dismissive.

And last time I played wow it still was a hell of a lot of button mashing. I don't think shooting the shit while waiting for frenzied to spawn is really the high point of socialization from eq but it definitely isn't something you can do as easily in the faster paced mmos. This isn't to say that the slower pace in and of itself is superior.

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Really have to take those rose tinted glassed off. What you describe still happens to this day the same way it happened back then. Players still ask for help or directions but its one and one type thing or they alt tab out to check some DB site, It's players that are making the decisions to socialize with the general populace less and less, it started way back in early MMO days and has only gotten worse since then. Has nothing to do with game design or mechanics.

I laugh at people who blame faster combat, I dunno how the fuck you people played EQ, but when there was shit to fight I was pressing a button as often as the game allowed as a wizard , while typing something during a cast time. I do the same shit today, if not on some kind of VOIP. You could say something about forced downtime, but nothing forces people to go as fast as they can in today's game, they choose too, just like people tried to do in EQ.

Gamers have no one to blame but themselves + technological advances(voip, being able to tab out, 2nd computers etc) for socialization aspects of today's games.

cinge_sl said:

Really have to take those rose tinted glassed off. What you describe still happens to this day the same way it happened back then. Players still ask for help or directions but its one and one type thing or they alt tab out to check some DB site, It's players that are making the decisions to socialize with the general populace less and less, it started way back in early MMO days and has only gotten worse since then. Has nothing to do with game design or mechanics.

I laugh at people who blame faster combat, I dunno how the fuck you people played EQ, but when there was shit to fight I was pressing a button as often as the game allowed as a wizard , while typing something during a cast time. I do the same shit today, if not on some kind of VOIP. You could say something about forced downtime, but nothing forces people to go as fast as they can in today's game, they choose too, just like people tried to do in EQ.

Gamers have no one to blame but themselves + technological advances(voip, being able to tab out, 2nd computers etc) for socialization aspects of today's games.

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complete and total bullshit. in EQ, there were severe consequences when you died. you could be bound 2 continents away, you could die somewhere where it was near impossible to get your corpse back, you could need the help of a tank, a CC, a cleric, and another support class in order to kill a certain mob or enter a certain part of a dungeon. when death has consequences, and you NEED the help of others to play the game, social interactions arise out of a necessity. when you play a modern MMO, and death is spawn back at a graveyard and it takes 2 gold to fix your armor and you run back to your corpse as an invincible ghost, death means jack shit, and the assistance of others is not only unnecessary, in most cases it is pointless. and maybe for just one fucking post in your life you could start without using the phrase "rose tinted glasses?" it's like your education stopped in junior high.

Dandai_sl said:

While I agree with this, generally speaking, it glosses over the impact game design has on player interaction. Sure people can chit chat all day with their looking-for-dungeon group, but there's no real need to when they'll be done in 10-15 minutes and never see those people again,ever.

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OK, so don't use the LF dungeon aspect, get players on your server, ask in /shout, /general etc , form groups without using the tool. Gamers decide to take the quickest route to do something(which also counts clearing as fast as possible and kicking people who cant etc),though its hard to fight human nature. But nothing stops someone from forming their own group, getting to know people on their own server etc, they just choose not too. Which is odd because most of the time the "Tools" will take longer to form a group then it would of took to just do it yourself. Players have gotten use to the tool, they demand them and cry foul when they are not included.

You can't do anything about players clearing content as fast as possible, that shit has been going on since the dawn of games and will never stop. People did that shit in EQ all day, try to kill as much as you can and as fast as you can, then go afk(or what players do today and just tab out).

I wouldn't be shocked that the players that cry for socialization don't even try anymore. They wont talk to or deal with "new players", they don't like players new to MMOs, they choose to just stick to who they know already or just pug it and stay silent. They never try, they never make the effort, they want the game to force others to talk to them, instead of them choosing to talk to others.

Edit: Also comes to grouping and force grouping. Why do you need the game to force you to find and group with others players? Yes questing games are made so they can be sold, but that is not a requirement. It's not a noticeable difference in exp(most of the time there is even a bonus to help) to get a questing buddy or two(I usually do it in every MMO, ask in zone chat for anyone else starting if they want to group up), there's a choice. It's a lot more fun with people to talk to while going around questing. If you really wanted socialization, you would be actively searching for that opportunity every chance you get, you wouldn't need a game to force it upon you and others. Again players choose not to and have no one to blame but themselves.

@ etch, I wont respond to you, you are still stuck in 1999 and don't seem to want to leave ever.

cinge_sl said:

OK, so don't use the LF dungeon aspect, get players on your server, ask in /shout, /general etc , form groups without using the tool. Gamers decide to take the quickest route to do something(which also counts clearing as fast as possible and kicking people who cant etc),though its hard to fight human nature. But nothing stops someone from forming their own group, getting to know people on their own server etc, they just choose not too. Which is odd because most of the time the "Tools" will take longer to form a group then it would of took to just do it yourself. Players have gotten use to the tool, they demand them and cry foul when they are not included.

You can't do anything about players clearing content as fast as possible, that shit has been going on since the dawn of games and will never stop. People did that shit in EQ all day, try to kill as much as you can and as fast as you can, then go afk(or what players do today and just tab out).

I wouldn't be shocked that the players that cry for socialization don't even try anymore. They wont talk to or deal with "new players", they don't like players new to MMOs, they choose to just stick to who they know already or just pug it and stay silent. They never try, they never make the effort, they want the game to force others to talk to them, instead of them choosing to talk to others.

@ etch, I wont respond to you, you are still stuck in 1999 and don't seem to want to leave ever.

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no, you're stick sucking blizzard's cock and just shit up every single thread here that doesn't include glorifying WoW. if WoW is so fucking perfect, why do you spend so much time posting here and not playing that game?

etchazz_sl said:

no, you're stick sucking blizzard's cock and just shit up every single thread here that doesn't include glorifying WoW. if WoW is so fucking perfect, why do you spend so much time posting here and not playing that game?

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Why are the dumbest people always the most passionate about their retarded causes?

Eq was shit, move on with your sad pathetic life

Do you remember "Page #8" from Brell forums topic "FUCK YOU SANORNIK!!!!"?

Brell Rants Information

Direct link to the word document:
http://www.brellrants.net/images/Sanornik.doc


Enjoy

Ambiturner_sl said:

Why are the dumbest people always the most passionate about their retarded causes?

Eq was shit, move on with your sad pathetic life

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EQ was shit... so you, Sir, move on with your pathetic life.
Feel better now right? Good, good...

Now. I, in the other hand, want a game that plays like EQ. Since every game out there plays identically to WoW (good for you eh? Bad for poor little neckbeard us). Don't you think it's justified for us, not you, to want a game that plays like the "shitty" EQ?

No no no.. don't panic, you wont be forced to play it. Relax! We just want ONE game to play like EQ. We don't want to rid you of what you think is the perfect MMO (which I'm guessing is available everywhere). On the contrary! I actually want you to enjoy thousands of games that you think are "not shit".

Isn't this fair? I think it's fair. But I could be wrong!! It's always a possibility.

Well if you want to be altruistic about it and say that everyone should get the game they want, and everyone should be happy we might as well just shut down the forums.

The discussion has always revolved around the understanding that there are finite resources out there so we are always arguing for our own likes and dislikes for the game.