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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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Gravel

Gravel

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Mist said:
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I talk about this often in other threads, but it's the hubris of Americans, especially every generation since the boomers, to believe that we'll forever live in prosperity.

Most can't imagine that the system has any weakness, much less that it could collapse. Power outages, food shortages, famine, these are all things that are "impossible" to happen in the United States, because the only thing people know is unbridled wealth.

I'm pointing out that this is foolish. The system absolutely can, and likely will, collapse. And with globalization and how the entire world is tied into the success of the United States post-WWII, it's going to make the collapse worse than any felt by the world.

What is it that's currently happening on the global stage that makes you believe we're going to pull through this even as good as we had it pre-covid, much less better? I know it's hard to imagine it right now, sitting comfortably in your home, shit posting on the internet in your AC during the summer, but by next summer it's possible all of that could be gone.
 
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fred sanford

fred sanford

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Gravel said:
I talk about this often in other threads, but it's the hubris of Americans, especially every generation since the boomers, to believe that we'll forever live in prosperity.

Most can't imagine that the system has any weakness, much less that it could collapse. Power outages, food shortages, famine, these are all things that are "impossible" to happen in the United States, because the only thing people know is unbridled wealth.

I'm pointing out that this is foolish. The system absolutely can, and likely will, collapse. And with globalization and how the entire world is tied into the success of the United States post-WWII, it's going to make the collapse worse than any felt by the world.

What is it that's currently happening on the global stage that makes you believe we're going to pull through this even as good as we had it pre-covid, much less better? I know it's hard to imagine it right now, sitting comfortably in your home, shit posting on the internet in your AC during the summer, but by next summer it's possible all of that could be gone.
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Thanks for making my Monday start off nice and bright

iu
 
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Lumi

Lumi

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Gravel said:
I talk about this often in other threads, but it's the hubris of Americans, especially every generation since the boomers, to believe that we'll forever live in prosperity.

Most can't imagine that the system has any weakness, much less that it could collapse.
Click to expand...
The funny part is that it's literally been designed to collapse. These fucking retards can't even wrap their heads around the Federal Reserve being a literal infinite debt loop. We literally borrow money and then have to pay that money back PLUS INTEREST. This is a literal impossibility since we owe more money than what exists. We borrow more money and repay the interest with money from that loan. Rinse and repeat until we're trillions of dollars in debt. We've dug ourselves into a hole that is fucking impossible to ever get out of. This is just a classic YGWYFD.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Gravel said:
I talk about this often in other threads, but it's the hubris of Americans, especially every generation since the boomers, to believe that we'll forever live in prosperity.

Most can't imagine that the system has any weakness, much less that it could collapse. Power outages, food shortages, famine, these are all things that are "impossible" to happen in the United States, because the only thing people know is unbridled wealth.

I'm pointing out that this is foolish. The system absolutely can, and likely will, collapse. And with globalization and how the entire world is tied into the success of the United States post-WWII, it's going to make the collapse worse than any felt by the world.

What is it that's currently happening on the global stage that makes you believe we're going to pull through this even as good as we had it pre-covid, much less better? I know it's hard to imagine it right now, sitting comfortably in your home, shit posting on the internet in your AC during the summer, but by next summer it's possible all of that could be gone.
Click to expand...
From the historical perspective I find it fascinating.

It is going to be the modern version of the Fall of Rome and it will actually happen almost exactly the same way. Once we cannot source materials for anything from China or some other point across the world (for whatever reason) our firms are forced to work with what they have. Ultimately falling into a distinctly lower quality of everything because sourcing expertise, equipment, and so on from the other side of the empire so to speak is now becoming impractical and at some point impossible.

In the Roman days without the security of trade routes within the Empire secured by the Legions a Roman in Sicily could no longer reliably get goods from Damascus or something that were needed to facilitate his business. Making all of the enterprises relying on this security collapse. As people recognized this and sought security they worked with what they had and founded Kingdoms.

Just look at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC. A pitched battle with more than 120k troops, cavalry and a total Roman defeat. Yet the Empire was able to replace that loss fairly rapidly and overcome the Carthaginians later. All throughout the Middle Ages such a scale of conflict was simply not possible as the logistics the Empire was capable of was not possible again until almost the Industrial age.
 
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OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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TJT said:
From the historical perspective I find it fascinating.

It is going to be the modern version of the Fall of Rome and it will actually happen almost exactly the same way. Once we cannot source materials for anything from China or some other point across the world (for whatever reason) our firms are forced to work with what they have. Ultimately falling into a distinctly lower quality of everything because sourcing expertise, equipment, and so on from the other side of the empire so to speak is now becoming impractical and at some point impossible.

In the Roman days without the security of trade routes within the Empire secured by the Legions a Roman in Sicily could no longer reliably get goods from Damascus or something that were needed to facilitate his business. Making all of the enterprises relying on this security collapse. As people recognized this and sought security they worked with what they had and founded Kingdoms.

Just look at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC. A pitched battle with more than 120k troops, cavalry and a total Roman defeat. Yet the Empire was able to replace that loss fairly rapidly and overcome the Carthaginians later. All throughout the Middle Ages such a scale of conflict was simply not possible as the logistics the Empire was capable of was not possible again until almost the Industrial age.
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I don't understand this doom and gloom; the US imports around 10% of its "needs;" much less than any other modern industrialized country or even the empires of old. We also have the might to secure any trade route we deem necessary due to our *literally* unmatched naval might. In the world you are talking about there is no more beneficent USA; there is only a naval superpower who takes what it wants and protect what it deems necessary. This is all to the detriment of every other gobal power in a big way. I am not saying that it would be easy, but every other power in your future would fare much, much worse than the USA.
 
Gravel

Gravel

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OU Ariakas said:
I don't understand this doom and gloom; the US imports around 10% of its "needs;" much less than any other modern industrialized country or even the empires of old. We also have the might to secure any trade route we deem necessary due to our *literally* unmatched naval might. In the world you are talking about there is no more beneficent USA; there is only a naval superpower who takes what it wants and protect what it deems necessary. This is all to the detriment of every other gobal power in a big way. I am not saying that it would be easy, but every other power in your future would fare much, much worse than the USA.
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Because the US is on the verge of bankruptcy. We've got a massive amount of debt and inflation, and we have two ways to combat the inflation:

1. Raise the interest rates, but because of our massive debt, this just puts us further and further into the hole. We're already at the point where a couple percentage points of interest rates would dwarf all other government spending combined. Debt service will become the biggest line item on our annual budget.

2. Print more money to keep the economy going, which exacerbates the inflation even more until we're in the phase where people burn billion dollar bills for heat because it's that worthless.

We won't be able to keep the global economy going anymore because they're all going to say fuck the dollar.
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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TJT said:
Just look at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC. A pitched battle with more than 120k troops, cavalry and a total Roman defeat. Yet the Empire was able to replace that loss fairly rapidly and overcome the Carthaginians later. All throughout the Middle Ages such a scale of conflict was simply not possible as the logistics the Empire was capable of was not possible again until almost the Industrial age.
Click to expand...
I absolutely love viewing history and current events through the lens of a shift from offensive technology ruling the day vs defensive technology ruling the day. 100% complete derail but its something I've thought a lot about RE: Bitcoin and the transition from the current paradigm (WW2 -> now) where projection of power was cheap and highly effective vs where I think we're headed where value can be stored via a seed phrase is your head and can't be easily confiscated... thus favoring smaller scaled everything because power projecting will no longer be able to steal wealth/value at scale

Post from crypto thread on this topic. Derail complete! If you want to talk about this hit me on the crypto thread, its more relevant there imo.
Flobee said:
Currencies die, and different currencies are accepted. My theoretical "flee the country" scenario isn't literal, I'm not going anywhere. There are countless historical examples of groups of people being killed and/or forced to flee their homes though, and they were unable to preserve any wealth. Bitcoin allows one to do so, that's my point.

Governments can control fiat on/off ramps its true, that is their best way to choke out competition, and they will do so I'm sure. In that case you earn BTC through peer-to-peer markets which BTC does very well. Its also quite possible that countries are forced to accept it rather than fight it. The panopticon globalist types never will, but they don't -have- to win afterall. BTC is the hardest money that exists, and the hardest money always wins eventually. We've all lived in a fiat bubble (1971-now) and that is historically unusual. Most of history had people using hard money standards, as least ostensibly so.

They control the money, so they control you. Having the ability to own your own money, and spend your own money, without the ability for centralized power to censor you or confiscate that wealth is unique to today, it has never existed before. The best comparison I can think of technologically would be the era just after the fall of Rome in the west. The countries were run by nobles that could afford to buy armor, weapons and eventually castles. They controlled however much land they could defend. It was an era of defensive technology being more powerful that offensive technology and lasted until gunpower hit the scene. We've been in an offensive technology era since then, and Bitcoin is the beginning of a defensive technology era, where the ability to preserve wealth and protect it from confiscation is going to take power away from large centralized structures. Take some time to consider the implications of removing control (ability to print + confiscate via taxes) of money from governments and globalist organizations. Can't print money, can't afford forever wars.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but struggling toward the adoption of freedom money is better than just giving up and living in your pod, eating your bug protein isn't it? Do you see any better alternatives out there?
Click to expand...
 
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OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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Gravel said:
Because the US is on the verge of bankruptcy. We've got a massive amount of debt and inflation, and we have two ways to combat the inflation:

1. Raise the interest rates, but because of our massive debt, this just puts us further and further into the hole. We're already at the point where a couple percentage points of interest rates would dwarf all other government spending combined. Debt service will become the biggest line item on our annual budget.

2. Print more money to keep the economy going, which exacerbates the inflation even more until we're in the phase where people burn billion dollar bills for heat because it's that worthless.

We won't be able to keep the global economy going anymore because they're all going to say fuck the dollar.
Click to expand...

A couple of percentage points of interest rates would only fuck us if we continue to spend since all previous debt is at the old lower rates. I understand that asking congress to be fiscally responsible is crazy, but rates raising now does not mean there is no way out. It might be painful, but again, there is no global economy without the USA; if countries stop using the dollar as reserve currency then we will absolutely stop defending their trade routes and vessels. Using the dollar is what we demand for not charging for protection and the minute one is gone so is the other. That is a world we cannot predict, but it is one that the USA continues to exist in.
 
Mist

Mist

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Gravel said:
I talk about this often in other threads, but it's the hubris of Americans, especially every generation since the boomers, to believe that we'll forever live in prosperity.

Most can't imagine that the system has any weakness, much less that it could collapse. Power outages, food shortages, famine, these are all things that are "impossible" to happen in the United States, because the only thing people know is unbridled wealth.

I'm pointing out that this is foolish. The system absolutely can, and likely will, collapse. And with globalization and how the entire world is tied into the success of the United States post-WWII, it's going to make the collapse worse than any felt by the world.

What is it that's currently happening on the global stage that makes you believe we're going to pull through this even as good as we had it pre-covid, much less better? I know it's hard to imagine it right now, sitting comfortably in your home, shit posting on the internet in your AC during the summer, but by next summer it's possible all of that could be gone.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of things wrong with America but fundamentally we're a nation of problem solvers and logisticians. We bury our enemies by being on-time and under budget.

Recessions are painful but they are, in strict economic terms, the process of an inefficient economy becoming more efficient again. They are how we eliminate the logistical and administrative rot in our system.

The important thing to remember is that if everything collapses, it isn't going to matter whether your money is in dollars, stocks or crypto, you're still fucked.
 
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