SNOW seems to be hitting resistance in the 150s. Thinking of increasing my position by 5 for a total of 15. UI has kinda been a mini roller coaster. Almost hit its 52 week low. Not sure I’m going to pick any more of that up.
UNH is touching 2.5 year lows. Got some industry-wide bad news on Medicare payments recently. 10-yr historic PE is 20.61. Today's PE is 18.86 (nearly 10% below). It makes tons of money. It ain't flashy or fancy. Buy it, hold it, forget about it for 20 years. If this support level fails it could potentially see a drop to test 400 (another 10% below today's open). This $445-$446 area is a solid entry point for a new position if you want to own this type of stock. Earnings are in 5 days. This will test the current support level. Play the weakness now with an entry sized position, if it misses on earnings let the market over-react and add on that drop. Caveat: This depends on "why" it misses on earnings. If it just misses "expectations" ignore it. If it announces a fundamental issue, then reassess the position.
Full disclosure - I am and have been acquiring it in this price range.
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Skidded a whole 2.6% from the all-time high. Back where we were 3 weeks ago before we started that last climb to the all-time high a week and a half ago. Still up over 8.5% since the start of the year.This is quite the skid downward we've had..
Isn't this more of a cash flow thing? Like, if you're throwing off ~$20B FCFE a year with modest but consistent growth and ridiculous stability, at some point there's a price low enough where that cash stream is valuable. If your thesis is "this is gonna happen for a long while", the lower the price the better. In 20 years no one will remember that current price either way.On a 20 year horizon, most of the stocks in this market will make money. Dont buy a stock that's hitting 2.5 year lows. Dont buy before earnings and this is the worst advice of all, dont average down after a bad earnings call.
If you want to buy something for 20 years just buy SPY.
if we crash through 4500 i'd be worriedThis is quite the skid downward we've had. Where are the resident technical nerds to tell us what the support levels are?
Isn't this more of a cash flow thing? Like, if you're throwing off ~$20B FCFE a year with modest but consistent growth and ridiculous stability, at some point there's a price low enough where that cash stream is valuable. If your thesis is "this is gonna happen for a long while", the lower the price the better. In 20 years no one will remember that current price either way.
Feels like you're combining short-term and long-term views here.
It's possible. Corporate finance is part of my background, and I definitely can't do the technical stuff most people in this thread do, yourself included.This reads to me like corporate finance is being conflated with retail investment, maybe I'm reading it wrong.
I outlined the issues with averaging down into a downtrending stock here: The Stock Trading and Shitposting thread.
Yahoo 2023 data
FCF: 25.682B
Debt Repayment: -2.125B
FCFE: FCF - Debt Repayment = 23.557B
Shares Outstanding: 921.93M
Our assumptions
Expected annual growth: g = 2% performance + 2.5% average inflation = 4.5%
Required return: r = 10% (Historical S&P)
Implied target share price
Expected Equity Value: FCFE * (1+g)/(r - g) = 447.583B
Implied target share price: 447.583B / 921.93M = $485
A number of moving parts.It's possible. Corporate finance is part of my background, and I definitely can't do the technical stuff most people in this thread do, yourself included.
What I mean is if you value UNH solely based on its cashflows and you thought a consistent growth rate was actually pretty close to the truth for a monolithic insurance company, you would have your eye out for a situation like this.
Absurdly simplified example using FCFE since we can value equity directly. I'm choosing a performance level that makes the math illustrative, not any actual belief:
So if we want to compete with S&P on returns (with a lot more risk), we'd look at a $480ish share price. Right now we're at $440, which would imply the stock is 'cheap'. Who knows why-- Sanrith Descartes presumably has a hypothesis that it's an overcorrection of the sector applying to the stock. So you pick some up.
UNH previously grew cashflow 15% YoYoY. Maybe in the earnings call they only come out 5% up, and the stock tanks further. But that still fits your hypothesis, so you pick even more up at a greater discount.
That's all I'm saying. If your hypothesis is that other people are valuing UNH highly because they expected them to start mining lithium or getting into nuclear power or receive some oligopolistic regulatory requirements, I think it makes sense to be looking for prices that seem to discount a target level of actual operating performance.
Reading the post you linked, I think the reason I wouldn't A. not buy immediately and B. exit and try again is that I'd be afraid the market would realize its mistake and correct up, and I'd miss my chance. Everything's easy to see with hindsight, and knowing you could have done better is probably a good lesson, but pulling out and regrouping only to find the opportunity closed the next day when you're talking about 20 years feels shortsighted in the other direction.
All that being said, I'm the guy who buys SPY for 20 years, so full disclosure that my practical experience here is nil.