IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,287
15,129
Solved the CR issue by just not linking in that library, I guess it was unnecessary. Oh well, that works.

New job is pretty hard, but goddamn I am busy from 8am to 5pm nonstop and I love it. And I do development all day. Seriously what the fuck was I doing in defense.
 
  • 1Trump
  • 1Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,950
43,123
In a view from very high above Kotlin is nice insofar that you can mix Java and Kotlin, which makes it a good fit for existing projects. And the language is slimmed down and has some advanced features like coroutines.

But as someone from a C/C++ background it still targets the JVM, which still has the smell of turd polishing, but its the same feeling with every language where "you don't have to care about pointers and freeing your resources, the garbage collector will take care of it for you".

React on the other hand is JavaScript, with the claim "don't waste your time recompiling". JavaScript:

View attachment 206838

In our goal to explore the solar system we should seriously make efforts to colonize Mars. JavaScript programmers are all so important to society in general and computer science in particular that they should have the privilege to be on the very first ship sent to Mars. All of them. Which we will call "Ark Fleet Ship B"

Ok ya, I mean as someone with primarily a C background whom has now shifted to Java (not only because it fits what I want to do). It's not really because I think Java is a better language, it just works well for the application I need it for. Love love C, I mean I really do. Hell I have some expressif ESP32's and man do I love playing around with them in C on the embedded level.

But in regards to my Kotlin question, I don't mean "what is your opinion of kotlin in general," I guess I mean more so relative for the situation's where it makes sense to use it, like android dev. Also in regards to Kotlin Native (Kotlin/Native - Kotlin Programming Language) which apparently allows you to compile it cross platform not using the JVM, so for instance, does Kotlin make sense if I want to develop an app that works on android and iOS? etc.

Also the JavaScript meme. My JavaScript isn't super strong but is that a joke on JS's weak typing?

edit - Ok just wrote up that meme in JS. wtf? lol. Def on weak typing. Fucking hate weak typing.
 
Last edited:

Vinen

God is dead
2,790
495
Solved the CR issue by just not linking in that library, I guess it was unnecessary. Oh well, that works.

New job is pretty hard, but goddamn I am busy from 8am to 5pm nonstop and I love it. And I do development all day. Seriously what the fuck was I doing in defense.

:vinensmug:
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,818
109,318
Not sure what you mean. Sure you can just rely on the default garbage collector in Java and an obscene
Ok ya, I mean as someone with primarily a C background whom has now shifted to Java (not only because it fits what I want to do). It's not really because I think Java is a better language, it just works well for the application I need it for. Love love C, I mean I really do. Hell I have some expressif ESP32's and man do I love playing around with them in C on the embedded level.

But in regards to my Kotlin question, I don't mean "what is your opinion of kotlin in general," I guess I mean more so relative for the situation's where it makes sense to use it, like android dev. Also in regards to Kotlin Native (Kotlin/Native - Kotlin Programming Language) which apparently allows you to compile it cross platform not using the JVM, so for instance, does Kotlin make sense if I want to develop an app that works on android and iOS? etc.

Also the JavaScript meme. My JavaScript isn't super strong but is that a joke on JS's weak typing?

edit - Ok just wrote up that meme in JS. wtf? lol. Def on weak typing. Fucking hate weak typing.

Not sure why people restrict that meme to just java and scripting languages. Most (almost all) of the webapps I worked on at GM were in Java and shelving garbage collection to the default collector was done almost universally in my ~6 years there. The only time someone went in and modified their shit was because the default collector caused a bunch of problems. Which happened quite often mind you!

Man the development cycle was always a shitshow at GM looking back on it... lol
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
16,768
7,790
I've never done it myself, but each time I've researched subverting(in one fashion or another) Python's GC, the answer was basically "yeah, don't do that".
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,818
109,318
It wasn't like I was running the shop there man. I don't think I ever met a C developer in my entire time at GM.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,635
4,214
But in regards to my Kotlin question, I don't mean "what is your opinion of kotlin in general," I guess I mean more so relative for the situation's where it makes sense to use it, like android dev. Also in regards to Kotlin Native (Kotlin/Native - Kotlin Programming Language) which apparently allows you to compile it cross platform not using the JVM, so for instance, does Kotlin make sense if I want to develop an app that works on android and iOS? etc.
Difficult question, so I'll try to elaborate a bit, which will probably sound rambling.

While there is a native LLVM backend for Kotlin you should be always aware that choosing a compiler/toolchain is always a matter of trust. Compilers these days are incredibly complex pieces of software, and you want something that is maintained and has earned the trust of many to generate correct code and optimize well without breaking things.

If you take configuration management serious (some industries have to) you have to version control not only your source and artefacts, but also your toolchain, operating system, and in hard cases your whole computer + CPUs. You have to validate everything affecting the outcome of your toolchain.

Also, keep in mind that when you choose a language/framework you essentially buy into its whole ecosystem. Do you need to interoperate with SQL databases, parse XML, drive OpenGL or talk to hardware devices on the USB bus or Bluetooth? Of course you can link to native libraries in most cases, but do you have to write bindings yourself, and are the libraries thread-aware/safe? Does your language automatically generate green threads or thread pools for async I/O and futures? Lots of questions to check out beforehand.

In the case of frameworks like React the basic promise is to let you quickly achieve results with an minimum amount of code and invested hours. Because manhours for developing/debugging/QA are the thing that drives software development costs. This fits the modern agile software development paradigm to ship as early as you have an auto-updater for your project, so you can push new releases to your customers.

The downside will always be that when a) things break you don't really know how stuff works under the hood, and b) if you want to do things not easily covered by your framework you are having to look around where to bolt things on to.

So, to come around: Yes, Kotlin is an OK choice if you want to develop an app that works on both Android and iOS. Its even ok to create something like a microservice in it for your larger architecture. OpenAPI can generate Kotlin. But if you want to scale your project you need to find programmers that either know the language and ecosystem, or are willing to learn it. Of course if I sit an C++ programmer on Kotlin soure he can write and debug programs somewhat after showing him the basics, but he will not use the features like channels well, or maybe stuck when debugging problems when he encounters code with features he is unfamiliar with.

These are all considerations you have to do on a case-by-case or project-by-project basis. If you work alone you can do whatever, if you build a team for a project from scratch you can look for experienced people, or people willing to learn. If you already have an established team and/or a legacy codebase you may be stuck.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Vinen

God is dead
2,790
495
We usually live in the basement

A few years ago I had the chance to visit the IT team of a large French Investment Bank. Met them at a Cafe in front of their GIANT AMAZING BUILDING. We start walking towards it.... then take a hard left and cross a dilapidated bridge. Then enter a building that has seen better days. Then take the Elevator down 2 floors....
 
  • 2Worf
Reactions: 1 users

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,635
4,214
Also the JavaScript meme. My JavaScript isn't super strong but is that a joke on JS's weak typing?
Oh, the JavaScript thing is not only the weak typing, but JavaScript also silently converting the comparison operators in interesting ways without telling you, like the string "0" to the number 0 which equals false. Thats why they have "===", but you have to remember to actually use it.

Here's a handy chart for all your JavaScript comparison needs:

207040
 
  • 2Barf
  • 1WTF
Reactions: 2 users

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
42,818
109,318
Implicit conversions are a double edged sword. You get used to it IMO. Async is the true bane of JavaScript. Triple equals on whatever you do is one of the most basic best practices for JS. Even at GM's dev shitshow they were always used.

I imagine things would get wild if you had a dev shop that didn't even understand that basic principle... lol.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,287
15,129
Onboarding at Dell EMC has been a NIGHTMARE.

On day 5 I talked to HR because I couldn't access payroll or timecard or anything. It took them TEN days to figure out that all.my login shit went to my Emc email address.... I quit emc 4 years ago. The email doesn't even exist anymore. How?

So they talk to ADP and start getting shit sorted out. Takes a few days to get into the system. Stuffs starting to work now. But ten days?!

Then I'm informed because of this they need to request a check for my first week because I wasn't in the system. whatever. Then they tell me oh yeah your bonus, you'll have to request that from "somebody" because that got lost in all this.

But that's not the end. My access to every system, every server, every service is going to my old emc login. It's been a battle.. no one can figure out what's going on

My favorite part. The system says I've been working here 7 years..
 
Last edited:

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,950
43,123
Month 4. Still unemployed. Living on the beach in a posh condo for free. Not terrible, but would more ideal if I was 20 years older...

Taking a few weeks break from hitting it hard core to just take a breath. Think I've decided to aim for remote positions with startups next.
 

Asshat wormie

2023 Asshat Award Winner
<Gold Donor>
16,820
30,968
Month 4. Still unemployed. Living on the beach in a posh condo for free. Not terrible, but would more ideal if I was 20 years older...

Taking a few weeks break from hitting it hard core to just take a breath. Think I've decided to aim for remote positions with startups next.
Start fucking 20 year olds to bring it closer to ideal
 

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,950
43,123
Start fucking 20 year olds to bring it closer to ideal
Don't care about fucking anything unless it's getting a fucking job tbh. Kinda over this shit atm. Just got turned down by a ride share company because even though I came up with a solution to a codeshare challenge interview and only needed maybe 5 more min to finish implementing, they decided to nick me over it.

I thought the whole point of those interviews is to see how you think heh.

Shits tiresome man.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,380
14,049
I'd imagine most startups worth a damn won't be too keen on telecommuting. Also, if you're in startup country I'd also imagine they are ridiculous with their interview requirements because they probably have a ton of young, eager, naive kids chomping at the bit for any position they can get.
 

The_Black_Log Foler

PalsCo CEO - Stock Pals | Pantheon Pals
<Gold Donor>
47,950
43,123
I'd imagine most startups worth a damn won't be too keen on telecommuting. Also, if you're in startup country I'd also imagine they are ridiculous with their interview requirements because they probably have a ton of young, eager, naive kids chomping at the bit for any position they can get.
Well fuck it. No idea then. Anyone here do remote?
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,287
15,129
I'm surprised you're having such a hard time. Is there something were missing? I've been offered a lot of jobs and I don't think I'm very good at what I do
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user