Justice for Zimmerman

Cad_sl said:

This type of application of self-defense gun law isn't controversial at all, many states have castle doctrine self defense (which is like one peg down the meter from SYG) and have resulted in probably... hundreds of minorities being shot by whites and no story. I don't know if you remember but in Texas there was a story about a homeowner who saw 2 guys robbing the house next door, he calls 911, they say they are coming, he's still on the line with them. He tells the 911 operator "well, you're not here yet, and they are coming out. I can't let them get away. I gotta go take care of this. *loads shotgun*" He hangs up and goes and shoots and kills both of them as they exit the house. They were 18-19 year old minorities, don't remember if black or hispanic.

Guy was not arrested, charged, or handled in any way.

No controversy. Why do we give a fuck about Trayvon Martin? Other than media hype for no good reason?

And really, if we follow the evidence, is there absolutely anything controversial about applying self-defense in the Zimmerman case anyway? If you believe the actual evidence in the case and don't just take wild guesses at what happened, Trayvon attacked him and continued attacking for some period of time until he was shot. This isn't a controversial application of self defense at all.

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They took that to a grand jury, but the guys that got shot, both looked like really black, but apparently were columbian or some shit, and felons, illegal immigrants. In any event the grand jury decided not to charge the guy. In Texas you can use force to defend property up to and including deadly force.

B_Mizzle_sl said:

They took that to a grand jury, but the guys that got shot, both looked like really black, but apparently were columbian or some shit, and felons, illegal immigrants. In any event the grand jury decided not to charge the guy. In Texas you can use force to defend property up to and including deadly force.

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Using deadly force to defend your neighbor's property seems a bit excessive.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Using deadly force to defend your neighbor's property seems a bit excessive.

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Seems like a neighborly thing to do to me. I'd appreciate it, anyway.

BoldW_sl said:

Seems like a neighborly thing to do to me. I'd appreciate it, anyway.

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Indeed

ili_sl said:

White people are leaderless. Blacks have leaders that they will follow blindly no matter what, without question, and will all rally behind. Whites are very divided on everything and won't use force to get what they want even when they are very unhappy, blacks will.

Whites always want to appease blacks, blacks don't care about appeasing whites.

When a black leader stands up and says this is what we are doing, they do it. Even Obama had to put his two cents in about Trayvon.

Zimmerman is going to be convicted. After everyone forgets about the trial he will get his appeal and the media wont cover it.

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riiiiighhhht

what furry said. about 25 years ago my mom was mugged on christmas eve by a bunch of black kids. the cops came. they took a report, but they didnt seem to give a fuck about actually catching the guys, they were joking with each other about making it to some party on time. so 5 years later when i went to jury duty for the first time, every trial i was sent in for the lawyer would ask me questions, like can you be fair or whatnot. my answer each time was. i dont trust the cops and i dont trust black people. by the third trial i was sent to the judge said something to me like. come on. you cant honestly judge someone fairly based on right or wrong? i looked the judge dead in the eye and said. honestly no. the cops didnt give a damn about finding the black people that mugged my mom so i have no use for either of them. judge wrote something down and i was sent home. i havent been to jury duty since 1993

Yes Iannis is full of shit (or his state has weird ass rules). The single time I actually sat on a jury, we were told what the case was about BEFORE we were ever asked any questions, and when the judge asked if anyone had any reason they couldn't serve (this was before they gave us the questionnaire) some guy said something to the effect of "the US justice system is corrupt and a joke and I won't participate in it" and was excused on the spot, no action taken against him.

you all had nice judges, during a summons a few months ago I was in a fairly interesting case, I did not get picked but I was in it till the end, final selection.

before the initial selection to be part of the panel, we got a big speech about not bull shitting, then again by the judge. Every blatant attempt to get out was asked to fully explain themselves, like for the above he would have been asked a series of questions to lead to the story of him mom getting mugged, stuff that you have real experiences etc are fine. The one guy that was like 'I hate 'merica!' was called up, talked to the judge and lawyers, both lawyers agreed that whatever his reason was, was not something they cared about so they made sure to keep the guy there all day and just not pick him, no early ride home. There where three people that where brought to tears telling their story's that where justifications to their get out of duty ploys. One chick was from the same highschool I attended a year or two younger, she answered no to things like 'can you look at this man, who must be here for a reason right? And say he is innocent till we prove his guilt?' and also no to 'if he chooses not to testify can you not see that as admiring guilt?' they used her as an example (the lawyers) while questioning the rest of the jury, once she got out (at the end...they kept her and grilled her a lot) she broke down in tears.

and this is in Florida.

guess it really depends on the judge.

Cad_sl said:

And really, if we follow the evidence, is there absolutely anything controversial about applying self-defense in the Zimmerman case anyway? If you believe the actual evidence in the case and don't just take wild guesses at what happened, Trayvon attacked him and continued attacking for some period of time until he was shot. This isn't a controversial application of self defense at all.

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I havent followed this very closely since I found all that media bullshit to be absurd. I do know the basics however. The controversy for me is how this physical confrontation started. Did Zimmerman corner this kid or stalk him, try and detain him? Did Martin jump the guy?

I dont know the intricacies of self defense law but if Zimmerman is trying to hold the kid against his will and got his ass beat, self defense isnt working for me.

Alternatively if Martin got up in his face and was the aggressor, got on top of him and was bashing his skull on the ground, fatal mistake.

Only one more day before we get our fix of reality court tv and support the networks talking about this 24/7. Too bad that plane crashed in SF - we could have gotten our fix all weekend long.

It will be interesting to see if the judge allows Martin's school records to be presented to the jury since his obviously were. While it would definitely put a chink in the "good kid" argument, I have a feeling it would open up a big ol' can of racism for the crowd who thinks that's all this shooting was about.

I actually dont think either of them are particularly shady characters. I think Zimmerman was suspicious of the kid and I think Martin was afraid/annoyed someone was following him. Nothing illegal about either of those thing. It became tragic when the physical confrontation started so that to me is really what matters.

Seems clear GZ was following TM. Called the cops (or dispatcher or whoever that call was to) and said so. Was there evidence that Martin confronted and attacked Zimmerman? Just looking at the two of them it's hard to believe GZ would start a physical fight, but who knows.

Well Zimmerman knew he was carrying a gun so starting a fight isn't necessarily that big of a deal if you don't care about shooting someone, or even worse if you're looking for a reason to shoot someone.

Numbers_sl said:

Well Martin knew was carrying a gun so starting a fight isn't necessarily that big of a deal if you don't care about shooting someone, or even worse if you're looking for a reason to shoot someone.

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wut

I meant Zimmerman.

Numbers_sl said:

Well Zimmerman knew he was carrying a gun so starting a fight isn't necessarily that big of a deal if you don't care about shooting someone, or even worse if you're looking for a reason to shoot someone.

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It is a big deal, especially if your weapon is still holstered. Who would start a fight without fear while their weapon was holstered. Makes no sense, especially from the "racist" angle. There would be a good chance that a criminal would be carrying a weapon too. Maybe he thought Martin was the the young African American he had mentored and wanted to say hi, lol.

I don't know if it makes sense or not to start fights with a holstered gun, but it could have been something as simple as Zimmerman grabbing Martin's arm or showing off his holstered weapon as a threat for unlawful compliance. I guess we'll never know. The question is why did Zimmerman follow the kid unless he was looking for trouble? But yeah, maybe he did want to say hi lol.