Kansas

I don't have a problem with them making certain types of goods off limits on a conceptual level. That's fine. I could take issue with some of the specifics of that, such as the effort currently in Missouri to make steak and seafood off limits. Some cuts of beef and certain types of seafood are quite economical and these are perishable items that can be had at deep discounts towards the end of their shelf life.

The daily limit that requires frequent usage to get the full benefit is dumb and I don't see how that specifically reduces any sort of fraud or improper usage to any great degree.

Abefroman_sl said:

Why the fuck do you need to buy groceries with cash?

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I see local farmers selling fruits and vegetables on the side of the highway pretty much every day during the growing season, and they're usually cheaper than any of the local supermarkets. They almost always only take cash. I live on the coast so you see fisherman selling seafood that way also, though that's not likely in places like Kansas or Missouri.

About 6 or 7 years ago, with my own eyes I once watched a 19-ish year old buy a 20oz. Mountain Dew and a bag of Twizzlers with EBT at 7-11 and hop into his shiny yellow ricer, bumping Nelly, and peel out. I actually didn't even pay much attention to it at first. But then the older man next in line at the counter, during rush hour with about 5 other people waiting behind him, stopped everything. He just stood there for a second. Just long enough for the rest of us to notice. But before we could get mad he said out loud to everyone in the store with a stern voice, "All of us just bought that kid Mountain Dew and Twizzlers." Then he turned and paid for his whatever and walked out. Nobody really responded. We just sort of nervously chuckled. We shuffled our way through the line and got in our cars and that was the end of it. I always remembered it though because I had never really paid any attention to things like that until then.

Look, I'm not trying to starve anybody here, but .... I mean...c'mon!

Ya, allowing welfare recipients to buy fresh, local produce and goods outside of the express lane at Wal-Mart seems like a win/win to me, but because a few dumbasses abuse the system everyone gets punished. And make no mistake, Missouri not allowing those people to buy steaks and fish, even if they are deeply discounted, is all about punishing poor people because they are poor.

I'm confused, when someone tells me "fuck you, if you want this thing pay me money" I just go OK and pay for it.

Don't get me wrong the welfare and assistance programs in this country are beyond fucked but I don't see how doing anything about benefits is "punishing" the poor. I'm so sick of entitled asshats who quit their job at the drop of a hat and complain about benefits. It's a culture and I hate to fall back on the old "bootstraps" argument but man, since moving to AZ I've seen a huge culture of "nice weather, can sleep outside a few days, who cares" that just didn't exist in New England. There are legit disadvantaged people, but the majority of them live homeless too proud or unable to get benefits. There is no humble EBT card holder anymore, it's just a fucking entitlement for mostly lazy people. The actual working poor don't qualify for it, they just have to get a second job and work 80+.

Palum_sl said:

I'm confused, when someone tells me "fuck you, if you want this thing pay me money" I just go OK

and pay for it.

Don't get me wrong the welfare and assistance programs in this country are beyond fucked but I don't see how doing anything about benefits is "punishing" the poor. I'm so sick of entitled asshats who quit their job at the drop of a hat and complain about benefits. It's a culture and I hate to fall back on the old "bootstraps" argument but man, since moving to AZ I've seen a huge culture of "nice weather, can sleep outside a few days, who cares" that just didn't exist in New England. There are legit disadvantaged people, but the majority of them live homeless too proud or unable to get benefits. There is no humble EBT card holder anymore, it's just a fucking entitlement for mostly lazy people. The actual working poor don't qualify for it, they just have to get a second job and work 80+.

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I thought that was actually a myth? That the massive majority of dollars spent on welfare actually do go to the people who need them and it's always a few bad (but very noticeable) system abusing people who make the who thing look bad. I haven't checked in forever but don't food stamps give you fuck all to live on?

It varies from state to state, some states are basically 24K+/yr depending on circumstances.

Everyone I know who worked and was frugal and just couldn't afford minimum standards for their kids gets the "get a second job" rejection. They basically force you to be an unemployed single parent because stuff like, you know, gasoline and insurance are not "allowable expenses". You are better off being unemployed than paying for childcare unless you make significant money.

TheBeagle_sl said:

Ya, allowing welfare recipients to buy fresh, local produce and goods outside of the express lane at Wal-Mart seems like a win/win to me, but because a few dumbasses abuse the system everyone gets punished. And make no mistake, Missouri not allowing those people to buy steaks and fish, even if they are deeply discounted, is all about punishing poor people because they are poor.

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They don't have such places in the ghetto aka food deserts. Don't you watch the news. Even the president said it was easier to buy a gun in certain communities than vegetables. Good thing illegal gun sellers don't take EBT - or maybe they do I dunno.

Most (all?) states have EBT for just food purchases (food stamps) and EBT with cash benefits (full welfare).

Most of the larger (IE, not some dude in a pickup) farmer's markets around here take EBT. So not sure what the big deal is. It's literally just 'withdrawing cash' which you might use for anything you wouldn't normally buy in most stores.

I've seen people tossing cases and cases of FULL soda cans (cheap store brand cola) into can crusher machines (makes a huge mess, soda goes everywhere) to get a few bucks to buy a pack of cigarettes because they did not have cash privileges (or ran out for the month).

I'm sure I've said it before but the biggest obstacle to ALL of these assistance programs is they are not graduated, they just cut off immediately after a certain income level. They should scale to always make you want to work and earn more money. You make 10K with 1 kid? Here's 15K in benefits. You make 25K now? Here's 5K in benefits. You make 35K now? OK here's 2K for 2 years and free healthcare for your kid, good job.

I have seen people cancel direct deposit and ask for payroll to cancel a bonus check to keep benefits. When you have 20K in housing benefits on the line and you lose all 20K by taking your 1.5K bonus check, no wonder. It's such a cluster.

Mist_sl said:

lol what. I think you're confusing the costs per household, rather than what they actually get in benefits.

Anyway, yeah, it's fucked up regardless. The state should make sterilization mandatory to receive benefits after your first unsupported child.

It's amazing how much it costs the state to keep doing the paperwork on watching these people's incomes to make sure they aren't making enough money.

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Yea I'm talking full housing + welfare + insurance/etc. not just EBT obviously.

Palum_sl said:

I'm sure I've said it before but the biggest obstacle to ALL of these assistance programs is they are not graduated, they just cut off immediately after a certain income level. They should scale to always make you want to work and earn more money. You make 10K with 1 kid? Here's 15K in benefits. You make 25K now? Here's 5K in benefits. You make 35K now? OK here's 2K for 2 years and free healthcare for your kid, good job.

I have seen people cancel direct deposit and ask for payroll to cancel a bonus check to keep benefits. When you have 20K in housing benefits on the line and you lose all 20K by taking your 1.5K bonus check, no wonder. It's such a cluster.

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Man, it's too bad we dont have some way of guaranteeing a minimum standard of living. Some way that we could combat people not meeting minimum thresholds of income, so they weren't as reliant on the government to supplement their lack of income...

Kirun_sl said:

Man, it's too bad we dont have some way of guaranteeing a minimum standard of living somehow. Some way that we could combat people not meeting minimum thresholds of income, so they weren't as reliant on the government to supplement their lack of income...

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Minimum wage simply makes people below a skill level unemployable. Google Friedman on this subject on Youtube. Regardless, I would rather subsidize 5K of someone's expenses vs. them quitting their job and subsidizing 25K.

If you cost X dollars for a company to hire and the value of your labor is not > X no one is going to hire you.

Abefroman_sl said:

So people who are getting tax payer money should be able to just spend that money on a bunch of shit?

I can't remember the last time I went to a gas station or supermarket and didn't have the ability to get cash back with no fee. There goes those atm fees everyone is scared about. If you need that fucking slushie and doritos so bad then use money from your job. People aren't entitled to a fucking 40oz and a box of Kool's

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Yes. Absolutely. Why do you think welfare exists? There are people that will make something of themselves if given a leg up and people who won't. For the former group, welfare exists to help them become productive members of society. For the latter group, it exists to placate them so they're not generating unrest/committing crimes.

These kinds of BS limits actively sabotage both goals. It adds extra unneeded hassles for the former group and is completely counterproductive towards the reasons for having welfare at all for the latter group.

The fact that conservatives push this so hard is doubly hilarious because it's caused by the exact same broken thinking that results in gun control legislation. It's feel good moralizer bullshit that accomplishes nothing, hell it doesn't even save money, it costs money.

Do you believe a potential murderer is going to think, "Well shit, I was all set to fucking kill that guy, but then they had to go and make concealed carry illegal! That just fucks up the whole plan, there's no way I can use my gun to commit murder now! I mean, have you seen how much prison time you get for concealed carry? No way am I risking that!" No? Then why the hell would you think a worthless deadbeat who is at the point where he's unemployed, homeless, and blowing his EBT money on hooch would see this and say, "Shit, this changes everything! I now see how alcoholism is ruining my life, I better sober up quick!"

$8/hr
40 hours
$320 a week
$1280/month

$800 rent
$80-100 gas
$100 car insurance
$150 electric

You're left with $230 for shampoo, razors, toilet paper maybe you'll even want to actually watch TV or have internet access, maybe even... Dare I say have a phone!? Forget about actually going out to see a movie or having a flat tire on the way to work... Maybe you get the flu a have to miss work, you're fucked. Better shop at good will for your next pair of shoes or a nice used pair of jeans with a mustard stain and a nice sweat stained T-shirt.

Wheres the money for food? Have a baby or two? $25 a week in diapers alone per child, can't breast feed? Formula is fucking ridiculous @ $20 a can and you'll go through 2-3 a week.

Many are in this exact situation and your jaw would drop to know how much you actually get for food stamps.

I would guess those you see with nice cars and clothes buying twizzlers at 7-11 sell drugs to get the things they do, the people who actually need help are going to get shit on with every ignorant person bitching about their 1/100000000 of a penny they paid towards a persons ebt card, while the rest of their taxes went to funding terrorist organizations in the middle east and giving Israel their allowance money to bomb Palestine.

Rhuma_sl said:

$8/hr
40 hours
$320 a week
$1280/month

$800 rent
$80-100 gas
$100 car insurance
$150 electric

You're left with $230 for shampoo, razors, toilet paper maybe you'll even want to actually watch TV or have internet access, maybe even... Dare I say have a phone!? Forget about actually going out to see a movie or having a flat tire on the way to work... Maybe you get the flu a have to miss work, you're fucked. Better shop at good will for your next pair of shoes or a nice used pair of jeans with a mustard stain and a nice sweat stained T-shirt.

Wheres the money for food? Have a baby or two? $25 a week in diapers alone per child, can't breast feed? Formula is fucking ridiculous @ $20 a can and you'll go through 2-3 a week.

Many are in this exact situation and your jaw would drop to know how much you actually get for food stamps.

I would guess those you see with nice cars and clothes buying twizzlers at 7-11 sell drugs to get the things they do, the people who actually need help are going to get shit on with every ignorant person bitching about their 1/100000000 of a penny they paid towards a persons ebt card, while the rest of their taxes went to funding terrorist organizations in the middle east and giving Israel their allowance money to bomb Palestine.

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No, the people getting shit on are the ones trying to get work who get stamps plus housing and will never get a job worth more than the benefits because they aren't ever in a position to develop themselves without risking their family. Indiana forbid we pay someone trying to work partial benefits amirite lol.

PS instead of God I'm using Indiana as the almighty from now on, but we might have to switch to Arkansas soon.

Abefroman_sl said:

I can't think of a single instance of where I would need cash unless I was trying to get past that law. I honestly have no problem with that law. Public assistance is supposed to help you pay rent, eat food and other things that are required to live. You want to go on a cruise? Get a better job.

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Better yet, get a jerb on a cruise ship.

Everyone wins.

Wasn't there some outrage a few years ago when Republitards realized that many welfare recipients have basic household appliances?

TANF benefits are figured based on individual state guidelines and dependent on factors such as family size, earned and unearned income, and housing expenses. The Florida TCA program provides monetary benefits for a maximum of 48 months to recipients who participate in work-related activities for at least 30 hours a week. The maximum monthly TANF benefit ranges between $95 and $610 per month.
Eligible applicants must have a gross income that is 185% or less of the Federal Poverty Level. Additionally, income cannot be higher than the payment standard for a family of the same size. Those who receive benefits and retain a job will receive an additional earned income deduction.

Federal poverty level is $11,670 a year, so you can make up to $11/hr and still qualify for welfare, although it is all a sliding scale for the payout based on earned income.

The reality is, nobody on welfare isn't working and those who are, aren't getting shit for money, at least in my state.

Section 8 has all been phased out and all applications for section 8 housing have been suspended due to a 6 year waiting period before being reviewed and accepted for HUD housing which are conveniently located in the biggest shitholes in your city totaling no more than 900 sqr ft.