Kickstarters

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Guurn

Guurn

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My wife bought me a couple for my birthday. They are pretty much the definition of unnecessary and not quite as useful as they should be. That being said, I'm getting one more to complete what should be a useful set for solo gaming.

Like most of their stuff it adds up fast to quite a bit of money. These are probably the worst value of what they sell. The dice vaults are fine I guess, I've given them as gifts. If you add up what you could spend on a few tiles, a master vault, and maybe some premium dice you could start getting close to the cost of what they are actually good at, tables. Granted they ain't cheap either but I'd sure like a coffee table from them instead of the one we bought before I knew this existed.
 
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Melicant

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A good friend of mine just launched this kickstarter. It is quite a bit more affordable than some of the other organizational products out there, and it they have some innovative features. They also have STL 3d printing files.

 
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Hateyou

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Melicant said:
A good friend of mine just launched this kickstarter. It is quite a bit more affordable than some of the other organizational products out there, and it they have some innovative features. They also have STL 3d printing files.

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Hateyou said:
Those would take barely any effort or money to 3D print. Like 20 cents per tray cheap.

I’m not suggesting not going for these if you like them, just saying how cheaply it could be done. The $20-$180 per tile price tag they have is just huge to me. I look at that video of the table covered with them and see a couple grand sitting there I can’t help but think how cheaply I could print it. The quality of the look and feel would obviously be drastically different.
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I will be suing him for stealing my idea, make sure he prices that into his Kickstarter!
 
Grabbit Allworth

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Melicant said:
A good friend of mine just launched this kickstarter. It is quite a bit more affordable than some of the other organizational products out there, and it they have some innovative features. They also have STL 3d printing files.

Click to expand...

I Kick a lot of projects, but I just don't have any use for this one.

Still, good luck to him.
 
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Guurn

Guurn

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Apparently this project is getting flack for an image that was basically copied from a DNR website. A frog that looks like it is making an OK sign...therefore white supremacy. The person behind the greater project made some tasteless comments in the past and one after the so called dog whistle. I was on the fence about he project, maybe 20% chance of backing. I was thinking of getting the basics and just leaving it at the cabin for when I am hunting alone. Something better than cards. Now the deluxe is looking pretty good, not because of white supremacy but because the game looks fine and it's nice to piss off cancel shit. I'll wait till the last minute because I'm waiting on a few other pledge managers and it's stupid to give the money early.
 
meStevo

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Yeah, it's a bit of a mess.

techraptor.net

[Updated] Developers Break Ties With TGG Games Over Use of Offensive Image and Response | TechRaptor

Publisher The Gaming Goat and Lead Designer on Tournament Fishing: The Deck-Building Game get into hot water over the handling of artwork with white supremacist connotations.
techraptor.net techraptor.net

I support the chain and the owner, but they've got some work to do with repair some business and personal relationships with this one.

I'm pretty tolerant but once it was suggested it might be a joke instead of a mistake, yeah, no.
 
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Hateyou

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That’s a pretty stupid thing for people to get mad about. The entire white power thing with that hand gesture is made up internet bs. It has meant Ok for over a century, used for the look/punch game for decades, but someone on the internet three years ago says it’s white power and now it’s taboo. Embarrassed at the board game crowd, once again.
 
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Cutlery

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Hateyou said:
That’s a pretty stupid thing for people to get mad about. The entire white power thing with that hand gesture is made up internet bs. It has meant Ok for over a century, used for the look/punch game for decades, but someone on the internet three years ago says it’s white power and now it’s taboo. Embarrassed at the board game crowd, once again.
Click to expand...

Board game crowd is a bunch of absolutely insufferable woke cunts now. Every goddamned message board is pure SJW shit tier now.

Goddamned shame.
 
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Angerz

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meStevo said:
I support the chain and the owner, but they've got some work to do with repair some business and personal relationships with this one.
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As someone who was pretty big into the Chicagoland/Midwest magic scene when they opened in 2011, I have never heard anyone say anything nice about Jeff, ever. Just as a businessman, general person, anything.

Various Gaming Goat stores are fine, as they are all franchises (had a friend who owned one, until he got out after growing tired of dealing with TGG and opened 2 more on his own).
 
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Phazael

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Cutlery said:
Board game crowd is a bunch of absolutely insufferable woke cunts now. Every goddamned message board is pure SJW shit tier now.

Goddamned shame.
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This. Just look at the Gloomhaven 2 Kickstarter horse shit.

I am personally done with KS for a couple of reasons, but mostly due to Sandy Peterson shitting the bed on his stuff. I got almost two grand tied up in projects of his that are already a couple years late. And I have hit the point where more of my KSes are going unfulfilled than delivering. I got enough games now that I am fine waiting for shit to actually reach the shelf, rather than betting on vaporware, especially since they are all pulling this bait and switch where they ship to retailers first with same goodies anyhow.

It was fun while it lasted, but combination of greed, mismanagement, and woke cancel crowd have sunk it for me.
 
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Grabbit Allworth

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Phazael said:
This. Just look at the Gloomhaven 2 Kickstarter horse shit.

I am personally done with KS for a couple of reasons, but mostly due to Sandy Peterson shitting the bed on his stuff. I got almost two grand tied up in projects of his that are already a couple years late. And I have hit the point where more of my KSes are going unfulfilled than delivering. I got enough games now that I am fine waiting for shit to actually reach the shelf, rather than betting on vaporware, especially since they are all pulling this bait and switch where they ship to retailers first with same goodies anyhow.

It was fun while it lasted, but combination of greed, mismanagement, and woke cancel crowd have sunk it for me.
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Yep. I back anywhere between 2-5 projects a month and I'm probably going to stop completely for many of the same reasons.


The shipping profit padding angle is just one of the many things rubbing me the wrong way. If some random guy from Ebay can mail me a hardback book from 3,000 miles away for $6, why does it cost me three times that when a similar sized hardback is coming from a Kickstarted project? And I'm not referring to the ones that are being manufactured outside the U.S.; I completely understand those rates, but within the U.S.? Come on.


Not to mention you can almost always find the products at a SIGNIFICANT discount post-launch. Before, I didn't mind paying the premium to help the 'little guy,' but, like anything, shitty people corrupt everything.
 
Angerz

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Grabbit Allworth said:
The shipping profit padding angle is just one of the many things rubbing me the wrong way. If some random guy from Ebay can mail me a hardback book from 3,000 miles away for $6, why does it cost me three times that when a similar sized hardback is coming from a Kickstarted project?
Click to expand...

There is actually a very good reason for this, coming directly from both companies.

The majority of Kickstarters failed in the early years for 2 reasons; over promising stretch goals that basically ate up all the money, and under estimating how much shipping actually costs. The first one has been fixed with time and experience in dealing with factories and stuff, the second one was fixed by kickstarter just telling its creators to stop fucking including shipping and charge it, at cost, to the buyer when the time comes.

eBay works the exact opposite way. Years and years ago, eBay had shipping costs just like KS does now. However, eBay realized people hated paying for shipping (plus the rise of Amazon prime), so they started charging us sellers fees on shipping costs we collected as well, then said "WELL YOU MAY AS WELL JUST WRAP YOUR SHIPPING INTO YOUR ITEM COSTS, CAUSE WE ARE COLLECTING EITHER WAY", then further incentivized low-to-free shipping by giving better search priority to items with free or 0.99 shipping.

You're paying for it either way, we just hide it better on eBay cause no one likes to see it.
 
Phazael

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Actually do not fucking care about the shipping. Need more money? Fine. Just deliver a fucking product when you said and to the people who paid for it. Coolest Cooler was the worst scam I ever got nailed by, but I have seen other KSes pull the same shit (even Sandy Peterson seems to be favoring retail over backers lately, on top of all their other issues). Money does not mean much to me as long as you deliver the fucking product.
 
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Grabbit Allworth

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Angerz said:
There is actually a very good reason for this, coming directly from both companies.

The majority of Kickstarters failed in the early years for 2 reasons; over promising stretch goals that basically ate up all the money, and under estimating how much shipping actually costs. The first one has been fixed with time and experience in dealing with factories and stuff, the second one was fixed by kickstarter just telling its creators to stop fucking including shipping and charge it, at cost, to the buyer when the time comes.

eBay works the exact opposite way. Years and years ago, eBay had shipping costs just like KS does now. However, eBay realized people hated paying for shipping (plus the rise of Amazon prime), so they started charging us sellers fees on shipping costs we collected as well, then said "WELL YOU MAY AS WELL JUST WRAP YOUR SHIPPING INTO YOUR ITEM COSTS, CAUSE WE ARE COLLECTING EITHER WAY", then further incentivized low-to-free shipping by giving better search priority to items with free or 0.99 shipping.

You're paying for it either way, we just hide it better on eBay cause no one likes to see it.
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I can't speak to anything beyond books because that's 99% of the projects I back. Furthermore, in nearly every project I've backed, shipping wasn't part of the campaign. There were posted estimates, but whatever the shipping ended up being, it's charged much later, after your pledge is collected.

That said, If I, you, or any other shmuck can go to the post office and mail a hardback from L.A. to New York for $6 it doesn't make any sense for it to cost $15-20 for these small companies shipping product en-masse. At the least, I'd expect similar charges to shipping privately, if not slightly less given the volume.

Inflating shipping costs to pad profit or cover unexpected costs isn't new. In fact, it's fairly common. The fuckery around shipping costs on KS ranges from just dumb to predatory.

One of the D&D 5e products I backed forced all of its backers to opt-out of a "voluntary" $10 increase to shipping that stemmed from COVID (/eyeroll) related supply chain interruptions. I would have been fine with paying the extra had it been presented to me as an opt-in, but not something I had to opt-out of and they're getting absolutely roasted in their comment section because the backers know the company is aware that a HUGE portion of backers fire and forget the campaign until it gets near the advertised delivery time and those folks wouldn't have ever seen the message to opt-out.

Much like Phazael, I don't really care that much about the bottom dollar as long as I get a quality product on time. I just hate the scuzzy shit companies do to try and confuse or fleece people. I'm sure some of it is marketing psychology bullshit along the lines of people being fine with paying $50 for a hardback, but at $60 you lose a third of buyers so they shift the difference to shipping.
 
Hateyou

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Grabbit Allworth said:
I can't speak to anything beyond books because that's 99% of the projects I back. Furthermore, in nearly every project I've backed, shipping wasn't part of the campaign. There were posted estimates, but whatever the shipping ended up being, it's charged much later, after your pledge is collected.

That said, If I, you, or any other shmuck can go to the post office and mail a hardback from L.A. to New York for $6 it doesn't make any sense for it to cost $15-20 for these small companies shipping product en-masse. At the least, I'd expect similar charges to shipping privately, if not slightly less given the volume.

Inflating shipping costs to pad profit or cover unexpected costs isn't new. In fact, it's fairly common. The fuckery around shipping costs on KS ranges from just dumb to predatory.

One of the D&D 5e products I backed forced all of its backers to opt-out of a "voluntary" $10 increase to shipping that stemmed from COVID (/eyeroll) related supply chain interruptions. I would have been fine with paying the extra had it been presented to me as an opt-in, but not something I had to opt-out of and they're getting absolutely roasted in their comment section because the backers know the company is aware that a HUGE portion of backers fire and forget the campaign until it gets near the advertised delivery time and those folks wouldn't have ever seen the message to opt-out.

Much like Phazael, I don't really care that much about the bottom dollar as long as I get a quality product on time. I just hate the scuzzy shit companies do to try and confuse or fleece people. I'm sure some of it is marketing psychology bullshit along the lines of people being fine with paying $50 for a hardback, but at $60 you lose a third of buyers so they shift the difference to shipping.
Click to expand...
I think some of the confusion around shipping is most companies are passing on the freight cost in their shipping costs. So if they had to pay $14k to get their product on the boat from China, then $6k to get the skids to their hubs, they are splitting that $20k cost between the number of units. Then they add paying their warehouse workers to break them down and label them, then the actual shipping charge. It costs you or I $30 to go to UPS and send something but when you add all that additional shit up it costs them $60.

I don’t know that this is the case in every Kickstarter but I know I’ve seen some companies talk about rolling all those costs together in our final shipping cost.

Edit: I want to add that I’m not excusing what they do, just the cause. Some of these games take a year or more to produce and in that time shipping can change drastically, especially after last year destroyed our supply chains. The big companies should be able to eat these costs but don’t. Small upstarts or single person Kickstarters it can devastate. One in a part of they have been shipping copies for the past couple years out of the guys personal budget. It was just miscalculated so badly. Another I was part of the shipping had doubled during his production, he too had to use his own money, lost his house, etc. It was his own fault but you can see from things like that how the shipping gets passed on to the consumer.
 
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Qhue

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Well the current shipping catastrophe has hit a number of Kickstarter projects right where it counts. There is just too much stuff leaving China and headed to the U.S. and essentially nothing making the return trip.

People are seeing 4x the previous price for shipping containers if they can even secure and retain a reservation. That sort of overage is hard to absorb.
 
Hateyou

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Qhue said:
Well the current shipping catastrophe has hit a number of Kickstarter projects right where it counts. There is just too much stuff leaving China and headed to the U.S. and essentially nothing making the return trip.

People are seeing 4x the previous price for shipping containers if they can even secure and retain a reservation. That sort of overage is hard to absorb.
Click to expand...
Yep. Personally when the supply chain problems hit last year I completely stopped kickstarters being produced in China (pretty much everything) because I knew there would be massive delays, massive shipping problems and costs, etc. No one should be banking on getting a product that doesn’t exist yet from China with a year+ turnaround. It’s way too risky. Just hope it arrives to retail here and buy it then.
 
Warr

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Probably a good thing for me, the slowdown in new KS campaigns has helped in part to break the cycle of FOMO and compulsively backing games. I still have a few I've backed that will be trickling in over the next year or so, but I almost have the storage under control and some point there will probably be a rule that for every new game that comes in, one must go.
 
Grabbit Allworth

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KS can suck a dick lately, but I had to back this one.

I missed the first run and ended up having to buy the product at retail. It was one of the few cases where I've had to pay far more than the KS, but these minis are amazing and it was still cost effective. The pictures really don't do them justice. They look fantastic in real life. I'm in on this one for $400 and probably going to pledge a second time to make sure I get everything I want.

The disabled and non-binary mini's are some faggot shit, but it's the state of gaming culture.

 
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