League Of Legends

I just exchanged gifts with Eidal. He gave me Officer Vi, I gave him Haunting Zyra. What the fuck, lol.

Dota2 players are just like that because LOL is massively more popular so their is an inferiority complex.

Apparently Storm in storm you don't buy items? So it's really like call of duty. You just log in and kill people.

Sounds even simpler. Is there no laning phase then?

Sounds boring.

They are just having a harder time designing champions that don't break the notion of what a champion in league should be capable of doing. They've more or less decided that global reach skills are a no go and most heroes with a global reach skill are some of the originals most inspired by skills that exist in Dota. League heroes can't have too much hard CC which pushes skill design into a very small window of effects - largely centered on damaging or repositioning as the centerpiece. League items can't have obscure on use effects because just like champions the items can only provide damage/mitigation and some variance of that as there are very few active inventory items of major significance in league design. I think they are just honestly hitting a wall because they can no longer afford to be wacky and creative within the constrained meta of how league has evolved over time. When they make a new champ they are more or less required to decide its role in the game before they create its skills. The flip side in dota is that icefrog just makes whatever the hell he wants, throws it in the game and lets the players figure out if its mid/carry/jungle/support and if its too strong where it ends up he nerfs it.

I'm not sure what the answer to leagues predicament is (if you can even call it that) given the games popularity as is I'm not sure they need to take it in any given direction. But the status of the game does lead to very predictable champion design due to the constraints of the game.

Draegan_sl said:

Dota2 players are just like that because LOL is massively more popular so their is an inferiority complex.

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Everytime dota 2 comes up you post some stupid generalization that "every dota player is x". I'm sure you haven't spent any time playing it and have no basis for the comparison as you just recently started league. Your key talking point is denying, which to be honest is as annoying as any dota player saying league is simple. Neither game is simple, they are both hard to master.

Denying adds a different aspect to laning as last hitting becomes an excerise of both harassment and positioning but also the fact that every creep is fair game to be "last hit" by both players. So think about it like this instead. Neither game is hard up for players or support by the companies running them.

That post was mostly a joke just to poke fun at Dota2 players, and not a serous post. I posted my actual observations a bunch of pages ago. I'm quite aware of the long list of small differences that make the games much different from each other from my experience playing.

Don't be so butthurt.

The popular DoTard knock on LoL 2 years ago was that it was unbalanced and Riot had no idea what it was doing. Now it is overbalanced? *shrug*

I've never seen a fanbase who *needed* recognition more than Dota fans. Your game is neat. Go play it and stop caring what other people think.

Those casters make everything great. Longest/worst/most boring match in dota history made hilarious by them:

So yeah. Amumu pwns plat 4-5 apparently. It seems like ad/as heavy teams which are very prevalent at this elo (lots of Vi, Aatrox, Jax, Vayne, cait) so he ends up ridiculously strong because of his build. Ancient Golem-> Tabi-> Frozen Heart-> Sunfire (or if fed ap, negatron then Sunfire) just shits on auto attackers.

Made it in to Silver 1 last night on my 3rd promo series attempt. Here's to hoping I can grind out enough wins in time to get G5 today haha, no clamps please!

Dandain_sl said:

They've more or less decided that global reach skills are a no go and most heroes with a global reach skill are some of the originals most inspired by skills that exist in Dota. League heroes can't have too much hard CC which pushes skill design into a very small window of effects - largely centered on damaging or repositioning as the centerpiece. League items can't have obscure on use effects because just like champions the items can only provide damage/mitigation and some variance of that as there are very few active inventory items of major significance in league design. I think they are just honestly hitting a wall because they can no longer afford to be wacky and creative within the constrained meta of how league has evolved over time.

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Really? They JUST released Jinx, with a global ultimate (granted, it is a skillshot). I also think Jinx is one of the best designed champions in a while. She's REALLY fun to play, and I generally don't play ADCs at all. I'm not too worried about their champion design, personally.

I also think they've handled designing champions around the meta pretty well. They've broken it down into archtypes, and let players decide from there. I think a majority of players are just too scared to go outside the lines, which forces a lot of people to feel obligated to use conventional picks. But you can have lots of success by taking unconventional champions to different spots. I've had a lot of success with Jinx in the mid lane, for example. I've also won games with AP carries in top lane. I think the upcoming Team Finder will help a lot, though.

Wizardhawk_sl said:

Made it in to Silver 1 last night on my 3rd promo series attempt. Here's to hoping I can grind out enough wins in time to get G5 today haha, no clamps please!

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Good luck! Only like 48 more hours. You can do eeeeeet!

This is stuff we've been over.
yeah, pugs enforce the meta, and kill "unique" champion designs and builds.

the meta really should mean jack shit to competitive play. Since they can organize, practice and communicate, to play new tactics. But pugs can't. they have to follow a lowest common denominator strategy, to ensure everyone is on the same page reliably.
And the same tends to go with champions. unique champions that don't sit in metas, or require cooperative play that is atypical, often either don't see use, or they completely shit on the meta so much, they have to be nerfed.

I definitely feel LoL's champs are not as wildly imaginative as they could be. I understand the whole "toxic", "counterplay" bullshit buzzwords, but I think they take it a bit too far at times. or kill fun, in the name of it. when they should just look more to ways to enhance play.


Thresh is another example of a recent reasonably unique design. got souls dropped on kills. got a pull. and the whole ally life line pull thing. wall break might count as well. not "crazy" though.

Caliane_sl said:

yeah, pugs enforce the meta, and kill "unique" champion designs and builds.

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The truth is, anything can work in solo queue. Except in solo queue, your success with unconventional picks has little to do with team work and communication, and more to do with individual skill.

I don't think they design around a specific meta. The archetypes they make just lend itself to the current one, but the archetypes have basically been around since before there was such an established meta. And I do think it's good design to build around archetypes rather than just making random shit.

Caliane_sl said:

I definitely feel LoL's champs are not as wildly imaginative as they could be. I understand the whole "toxic", "counterplay" bullshit buzzwords, but I think they take it a bit too far at times. or kill fun, in the name of it. when they should just look more to ways to enhance play.

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Shrug. That's actually why I prefer LoL over DotA. People may call it dumbing the game down or making it noob friendly, but I think it just makes the game more enjoyable. So much of DotA's design (in my personal opinion) seems to be focused on punishing those who are not doing well.

Grinding up S1 now. When exactly does the season end? I'm on a 4 game winning streak as Sivir (and 7/0 with her in ranked overall). Getting 5 pts per win at the moment, 21 LP. What time exactly is the season ending? I might have to pull a binge to grind out gold before it ends, hopefully I can keep up the win streak.

You have the full day tomorrow, it ends at midnight between the 11th and 12th.