Lucifer

Tarrant_sl said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Lucifer and his family. Even his angel brother said he was following him and noticed him caring about people and that he didn't like it and mentioned a balance that needed to be maintained. Which sort of hints that Lucifer was always destined to revolt against God, which flies in the face of what most of Christianity teaches.

I also found it odd (and didn't like) that while Lucifer stood up for himself when confronted, I got the impression that the Angel could have kicked his butt....which you would think would NOT be the case.

Speaking of Christianity, Church groups on the netz are flipping their lids over this show.

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This is the entire premise of the Lucifer series. During Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. Lucifer questions whether or not he was the one who actually chose to revolt and whether or not he really has free will. Or he was just part of The Creator's plan the entire time. So he absconds from hell and has Dream cut his wings off (original character model was actually David Bowie). Then goes to the beach and watches sunsets not giving a shit about anything.

It is compelling, because it does take the Christian understanding that Lucifer was never demoted as an Angel per se and never relieved of his station as the literal Will of God. This is why he was depicted as a regular angel in The Sandman... just in Hell.

The angel who threatened him is probably their version of Amendiel or whatever his name was. As this one seems to be defending the status quo simply because he knows nothing else. Although the other angels outright did nothing because they are well aware that he is still the second most powerful being next to The Creator itself, and even then underestimating him would be the last mistake you make.

But we'll see where they take the plot. That is the existential premise of the series, "What is free will?"

Not having read the series, TJT explained a lot of what I was going to say my assumptions were. Also, his "family" is obviously just every other angel, and God is father to all of them, so it isn't like a "family" in the way that it seemed Tarrant was saying it. I could have misread the intent though, so my apologies if that was obvious to you.

Having done a LOT of research into angels and their "mythology" because it fascinates me and I've always wanted to write a book with those elements, it should be as TJT said that Lucifer is second only to God, with only archangels like Michael and Gabriel being even remotely close (everyone else so far down the power curve as to be inconsequential) and anyone else should know that. Perhaps this mythology is slightly different, or the removal of his wings has weakened his powers, or maybe that black dude angel is just a dumbass and doesn't realize who he's fucking with, but I fully expect that at some point he pushes Lucifer too far and Lucifer shows a fraction of his true power and leaves him a sobbing mess. I hope, at least.

I also like the whole free will question being a main focus, because I greatly enjoy this Lucifer who isn't inherently evil, and actually cares about people like that singer chick, but also doesn't give a fuck about being polite. I actually quite look forward to the little girl (Trixie is a hooker's name) growing on him and him reluctantly caring about her back. A "human" Lucifer is far more entertaining than a purely evil omnipotent being.

Why does this have to be so fucking far away?? Fuck. This is probably my most anticipated new show right now.

Dude, you totally need to read Sandman and the Lucifer series then. Gaiman is well known for using vast amounts of actual mythology within their actual contexts. Never really just using the "theme" of mythology to suit his needs. Although he didn't create the Lucifer series, this is still very influential within the series itself.

Michael is the only one who is equal in the series. The interpretation is that The Creator first made the angels and they were the tools he used to create the universe. First being Lucifer, the Will and second being Michael, the Demiurgos (power of creation). Michael was MIA for a lot of the series for a few reasons. While he is supposedly equal in ability, he is not even half as smart and is much weaker willed that Lucifer (obviously). Gabriel was sort of the Operational manager and just keeps everything running smoothly.

Maybe they'll mention is later, but after Lucifer was sent to Hell. He was alone for, "years beyond knowing." Eventually souls started coming to him and told him to punish them for their wickedness. So he was all, uh, okay if that's what you want. Then began using the native demon type creatures to punish the souls and thus created the perception that he was all about torture and damnation. When he never gave a shit in the first place. Removing his wings in the series was more symbolic than it was a demotion. Sort of him just telling the Creator to fuck off, I'm doing what I want and you can't stop me.

In Constantine, "Satan" is actually a guy called The First the Fallen. Thematically he was The Creator's first creation, but was then discarded for being fucked up and evil. It was written this way to avoid continuity issues with Lucifer/Hellblazer.

Either an oversight, or intentional so TV fans don't get caught up in one devil being different from the other. The distinction was to differentiate fans who actively read both comics as they were being written at the same time. As the characters are not the same in any way in terms of personality, humor, etc, etc.

It wouldn't make sense for them to overlap in their TV versions either though. They are two completely different and completely unrelated characters.

American Gods was awful, and one of the most boring things I've ever read. Good Omens was decent, but didn't really live up to the hype. Both of those have pretty much prevented me from even trying any of his movies or comics really. Maybe I'll give some of them a shot, but I sort of feel like he's just one of those guys everyone else likes and I don't.