Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Even if it happened in the garage there would be an enormous amount of blood. Have you ever killed and cleaned an animal? Imagine trying to clean that good enough to fool a forensic team. Somehow Steve Avery the redneck retard did it? Very doubtful.

Yes, I'd say he would have to be some kind of forensics mastermind to pull that off.
Wasn't Jive's expert theory that there wouldn't be any evidence of blood or DNA or anything at all from the victim because Avery could have wrapped her in a blanket?
I'm going to lump these together. Lets say he killed her in the garage. Have I ever killed and cleaned an animal? No, but you seem to think he stood back and fired (22? is that what we're saying?) bullets into her body. Now, maybe if you're in a Tarantino movie and have no idea what happens when you shoot a body (2, maybe 5 times at the most, is the conservative estimate), then you'd expect blood to splatter every which way. As someone who has never shot a person before, I fully expect that if I ever have to, I would probably shield the blood from splattering all over my ride-on lawn mower (like the paint can I mentioned earlier). Apparently cocksuckerbreath thinks that this is Dexter level foresight. I think it's common goddamn sense. And the 'reddish black' shit Dassey told his mum he helped clean from the garage floor might be the kind of thing you might get from that kind of mess; no splatter, just a general, localized mess. damning? nope. But something to consider

i wasnt arguing with JT. i was curious about his "plausible scenario" because none of the evidence makes any damned sense. of course its plausible that he might have killed TH, its plausible that the non retarded dassey killed her or the other hunter did too. the evidence is now so tainted and befucked with that a conclusive murderer is impossible.
You're right. The evidence has been tainted beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yeah his theory on the case was pretty laughable at best. His best piece of evidence was the oh my god sweat dna on the car!1!
nah. I never had a theory. was only ever throwing out plausibles for certain bits of evidence.

No, Khalid is right, his argument was very nuanced. Nuanced in the fact that he could somehow completely ignore that nothing the investigators uncovered as evidence could be considered credible and choose to hang his hat on one piece of evidence that surely wasn't subject to conflicts of interest at best because... well I have no idea why he thought any evidence introduced by those corrupt pieces of shit could be considered credible.
if you think taking everything at face value from a documentary is somehow unbiased or pure, I have news for you.


No reasonable person could watch what we were shown in those 10 hours and come to the a guilty verdict. I don't think any of you would disagree with that. So the obvious question is, was the jury shown anything we weren't? If you didn't ask yourself that, you're not being critical enough.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Even if there was some smoking gun concrete bunker solid piece of evidence we were not shown, it still doesn't negate all the bullshit evidence we were shown. Especially for Brendon who was convicted purely on his "confession"
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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There is no way to get smoking gun solid evidence from individuals that have lost their credibility and shown they aren't trustworthy. Credible evidence can only be gathered by credible people. You can't believe anything those investigators say or do. This isn't a hard concept.
 

Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
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The biggest issue as pointed out by Steven's lawyers is that the County knew it had a conflict of interest. So they announced to the world they would play no part in the investigation yet actually be the investigators that develop the majority of the evidence and case in the trial? Yet the court was fine by that? That just seems crazy right from the get go.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
Liked the series but they kind of gave away what was going to happen in the first episode when they said he shouldn't have sued the cops in the same city he lived in.

I knew after that he was fucked.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Even if there was some smoking gun concrete bunker solid piece of evidence we were not shown, it still doesn't negate all the bullshit evidence we were shown. Especially for Brendon who was convicted purely on his "confession"
I absolutely agree with you. The verdict was bullshit
 

Cad

<Bronze Donator>
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17 people is sad? Please design a better system then. We'll be waiting.
Firstly, criminal court judges should not be elected they should be appointed for life (by the governor) just like article III federal judges. Elected judges are fucking slimeballs. Article III judges can be idiots too, but least they are not beholden to idiotic voters.

Secondly, the various state bar organizations need to draft and pass stricter ethical rules for prosecutors, such that if it comes out that a prosecutor withheld brady evidence or knowingly prosecuted someone beyond the limit of the law, they will take the sentence of the person they got convicted. Lets see if they act like dickheads then.

Thirdly, the police need to be accountable for obvious misconduct. Currently the police police themselves, this obviously doesn't work. There needs to be an independent agency that monitors professional responsibility and has 100% access into what the police do. Can track their whereabouts at all times, access to body cams, access to full-time audio recording. Police need to be held accountable for their actions more strictly than the average citizen due to the power and discretion afforded them. In return for this level of scrutiny, police testimony would be very trustworthy because they would have audio/video to back them up at all times.

I'd start with those three things, then see how that goes. We can talk about what do about juries after we see how this works.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
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I'm going to lump these together. Lets say he killed her in the garage. Have I ever killed and cleaned an animal? No, but you seem to think he stood back and fired (22? is that what we're saying?) bullets into her body. Now, maybe if you're in a Tarantino movie and have no idea what happens when you shoot a body (2, maybe 5 times at the most, is the conservative estimate), then you'd expect blood to splatter every which way. As someone who has never shot a person before, I fully expect that if I ever have to, I would probably shield the blood from splattering all over my ride-on lawn mower (like the paint can I mentioned earlier). Apparently cocksuckerbreath thinks that this is Dexter level foresight. I think it's common goddamn sense. And the 'reddish black' shit Dassey told his mum he helped clean from the garage floor might be the kind of thing you might get from that kind of mess; no splatter, just a general, localized mess. damning? nope. .
At this point you're just making up your own story independent of the evidence presented. Key to the case is Avery involving Dassey with the knife, slitting her throat. Between this and the gunshot there would have been a TON of blood. And after the fact there's not a single spec of her dna on the garage or in the trailer. It defies logic. You or I could plan and plan and not pull off a murder this cleanly, and this guy has an iq of 70.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
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As someone who has never shot a person before, I fully expect that if I ever have to, I would probably shield the blood from splattering all over my ride-on lawn mower (like the paint can I mentioned earlier). Apparently cocksuckerbreath thinks that this is Dexter level foresight. I think it's common goddamn sense. And the 'reddish black' shit Dassey told his mum he helped clean from the garage floor might be the kind of thing you might get from that kind of mess; no splatter, just a general, localized mess. damning? nope. But something to consider
Was going to answer civilly, but you're still calling people cocksukerbreath, and I still honestly think the best thing that could have happened in your life was your mother aborting you.

But hey, let's give it a shot:

One of the issues people have with your logic is that you basically rely on two completely different profiles of Avery to explain things. As discussed, How can he seem an inbred retarded hillbilly about some evidence, then a master at understanding and cleaning forensic evidence at other points. And here, you've stated/implied his motive/profile was just that he was an impulsive psycho acting out on base impulses, but also calculating and planning things like how to stop blood spatter that you claim is common sense, but does Avery really strike you as someone who is calm and calculating and has a lot of foresight or common sense. Someone whose only real motive to rape and kill a girl was blind, irrational lust, but he's going to take the time to prepare and then clean for blood spatter and DNA evidence, and then going to bungle all the other evidence.

He's either an impulsive psychopath acting out without much calculating, at which point a lot of the evidence doesn't make any sense. Or he's a calculated intelligent sociopath planning his crime, at which point a lot of the evidence doesn't make any sense.



if you think taking everything at face value from a documentary is somehow unbiased or pure, I have news for you.
You're still hanging your hat on the vague claim that all documentaries are inherently bias. Yeah, great philosophizing there, Socrates. Everything in life is presented and perceived with bias. When you actually have some hard or credible evidence the documentary left out, you might have a point. When you actually even have a plausible story why these women would be so unbiased you couldn't take a film about failures in the justice system seriously despite it repeatedly depicting failures in the justice system, then please inform us so we can all cry foul.

You know, like if the filmmakers were relatives of Avery and bullying/pressuring people into saying certain things in the documentary, akin to how [allegedly] the jury worked, then you'd have a point.

But instead, you have shit-all fact and logic to stand on. You thought you were being cool and provocative by arguing and trolling. You thought you had a few friends on your side and when even they abandon you have repeatedly thrown a fit. So, all you have left is insulting everyone, claiming documentaries are bias, and sticking to theories so ignorant they make you look very unintelligent.


No reasonable person could watch what we were shown in those 10 hours and come to the a guilty verdict. I don't think any of you would disagree with that. So the obvious question is, was the jury shown anything we weren't? If you didn't ask yourself that, you're not being critical enough.
No, you worthless cunt slough, the obvious question is when so much reasonable doubt is presented, how and why did a jury ignore jury instructions and find Avery guilty anyhow? And with so much of the reasonable doubt coming from suspicious or mishandled direct evidence, how did law enforcement and the local justice system be allowed or feel empowered enough to present it when they were proven to have incorrectly prosecuted the very same man previously.

Only you, a bunch of dumb twats on afternoon talk shows, and Ken Kratz think the point of the documentary and "obvious" questions should delve into presuming he's guilty and wondering what we don't know that proves he is. It's not critical to wonder what other evidence the jury was show, it's the exact sort of terrifying, ignorant bias and corruption the documentary was trying to expose.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
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oh, boo hoo. Don't try to dish it out if you can't take it.

Didn't read the rest.

I'm more than happy to cut the shit out though. I'm sure in real life I wouldn't think you were such a twat
If you were more than happy to cut this shit out you wouldn't have double-downed with retarded insults in the first place when most in this thread were telling you to shut up and/or fuck off. So, at this point whining about how others can't take what is being dished out and trying to use that as an excuse to not respond isn't a very convincing display of taking it.

I'm still pretty sure you'd be as ignorant and incapable of rational thought in person. And because of that I'd most definitely be as much of a "twat" to you. No offense, but this is just how I act toward worthless ignorant fucks.

The problem is still that you think the insults, not your ignorance, is the shit you needed to cut out. Speaking of cutting it out, stop setting up so many abortion jokes!
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
Before I say this I do believe that guy was probly innocent. There was just too many inconsistencies, and the fact the Detectives never investigated anyone close to the family is a little shocking. Did anyone even pull the call records of the phone that was supposedly getting all these ignored calls?

From a Documentary perspective it is a very biased film, not that is a bad thing because guys like Roger Moore made careers off of that type of Documentary. It even follows a very common Biased Documentary trope of discredit the person you are trying to defend in the opening of the film then use the rest of the film to win your audience over.

I've read a lot of film books, and the original purpose of a Documentary was to show an unbiased view of anything you are documenting. This is extremely tough btw because every human had some bias.

The Film IMO does not show both sides in an equal matter. There is almost no interviews with anyone but the people on the defense side. Now that could be because they had no access to the other side to document, and this is the only way they could build their film, but they still have plenty of public records on the opposing side of this film.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
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8,809
If you were more than happy to cut this shit out you wouldn't have double-downed with retarded insults in the first place
I wasn't the one who started with the insults, but I certainly don't mind. Shut up and fuck off? Nah. This will be, what, the 4th time I've offered to tone it down and instead you come back with this kind of crap. I couldn't care one way or another, but you seem to have a sharp stick jammed up your cunt. I'm also fairly certain I wouldn't even acknowledge the existence of shlubs like you in real life, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. But by all means, keep it coming. You seem rustled
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,639
8,809
Before I say this I do believe that guy was probly innocent. There was just too many inconsistencies, and the fact the Detectives never investigated anyone close to the family is a little shocking. Did anyone even pull the call records of the phone that was supposedly getting all these ignored calls?

From a Documentary perspective it is a very biased film, not that is a bad thing because guys like Roger Moore made careers off of that type of Documentary. It even follows a very common Biased Documentary trope of discredit the person you are trying to defend in the opening of the film then use the rest of the film to win your audience over.

I've read a lot of film books, and the original purpose of a Documentary was to show an unbiased view of anything you are documenting. This is extremely tough btw because every human had some bias.

The Film IMO does not show both sides in an equal matter. There is almost no interviews with anyone but the people on the defense side. Now that could be because they had no access to the other side to document, and this is the only way they could build their film, but they still have plenty of public records on the opposing side of this film.
Careful, Column. Rational, impartial talkin' ain't welcome round these here parts. And remember, the documentary didn't have narration, so it couldn't have been biased!
 

Jorren

Maximum Derek
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From a Documentary perspective it is a very biased film, not that is a bad thing because guys like Roger Moore made careers off of that type of Documentary.
Michael Moore? LOL I call him Roger all the time too cause of Roger and Me.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
You don't need spoken narration to be biased, it can be edited in a way to influence your audience.

That being said If I was on that Jury I would have probably let this man go if everything in this Documentary is accurate and the Documentarian didn't edit out any key moments in that courtroom's history.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
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8,809
You don't need spoken narration to be biased, it can be edited in a way to influence your audience.

That being said If I was on that Jury I would have probably let this man go if everything in this Documentary is accurate and the Documentarian didn't edit out any key moments in that courtroom's history.
I was mocking a terrible opinion made earlier in the thread.

And ya, unbiased or not, there still certainly seems to be enough objective evidence of corruption for a not guilty verdict.
 

chaos

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Cad maybe you know, how common is it for the judge to limit what the defense can argue as far as theories and potential suspects like they did in this case? The liability argument didn't seem especially terrible to me but I was curious if that is common or not.