Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

Intrinsic_sl said:

Clinging to the prosecutions assertion? Yeah sorry if we're clinging to someone's story whose whole responsibility is to convince beyond reasonable doubt a defendant is guilty. They spun the story and it made no sense. No one needs to speculate about the infinite number of locations she could have been killed.

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Let's say he did kill her, but there was also evidence planted by the police. Would you feel bad that he was in jail regardless?

This isn't some good natured, do-gooder like the documentary makes him out to be. By all accounts, he's probably a shady fuck at best and more likely a pretty big sack of shit. I don't doubt it wasn't out of character for him to have committed the murder

OUAriakas_sl said:

Jive, you are the exact kind of person that scares the shit out of the people that value due process. "He probably did something wrong at some point so we should just lock him up now even though the prosecution did not meet the burden of proof this time."

The presumption of innocence in each case is the most vital part of our criminal justice system and years of seeing people presumed guilty via public opinion is eroding that concept into oblivion. It is terrifying.

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Where did I suggest he be locked up for things he previously did wrong? I'm saying that his previous behaviour is not inconsistent with someone who may have committed a rape/murder. And his behaviour leading up to the day she was killed would fit into the narrative that hedidrape and murder her. And I'm suggesting you guys taking the word of an obviously bias documentary that was painting a rosy picture of him is naive.

Yes, the police and prosecution fucked up. But I would be equally as horrified to find out that a rapist/murderer was set free because of the incompetence of the state.

Dassey claims he helped Avery move the car, then Avery opened the hood and disconnected the battery. Avery's sweat DNA was found on the hoodlatchof the car and the battery was disconnected. Did Dassey just guess that one? Like his homework?

Via the link Bisi posted before:

Before proceeding, it is important to note that in Brendan's interrogations by investigators, the RAV4 hood is introduced by Fassbender, and not Brendan:

F: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after that car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
B: The he left the gun in the car.
F: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
B: I don't know.
F: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to the car?
B: Yeah.
F: What was that? (pause)
W: What did he do, Brendan?
W: It's OK, what did he do?
F: What did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? (pause)
B: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
F: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
B: Yeah.
SOURCE:http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazon...Transcript.pdf

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Doesn't look like he guessed, more like he was fed and went along like every other time those 2 cops were on him.

You're wrong Jive. Dassey didn't volunteer any information about the hood latch. He was led to it by Fassbender just like every other key piece of his testimony.

From Reddit:

Before proceeding, it is important to note that in Brendan's interrogations by investigators, the RAV4 hood is introduced by Fassbender, and not Brendan:

F: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after that car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
B: The he left the gun in the car.
F: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
B: I don't know.
F: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to the car?
B: Yeah.
F: What was that? (pause)
W: What did he do, Brendan?
W: It's OK, what did he do?
F: What did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? (pause)
B: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
F: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
B: Yeah.
SOURCE:http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazon...Transcript.pdf

God dammit. I wanted to shove that one in his face but Drtyrm beat me to it.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

You only think he removed every trace of dna because you're clinging to the prosecutions assertion that he shot her in the garage since that's where they found the bullet that was planted. He didn't need to do much cleaning if he killed her elsewhere.And they apparently threw the sheets in the fire along with her, so that takes care of most of that evidence.
Despite what Chanur insanely asserts above, you don't leave DNA around everything you touch. You guys seem to think you just turn on your Batman DNA vision and should see traces of her everywhere

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I don't feel like going over the rest of the stuff you posted, but you can't really believe this, can you? Slashing someone's throat only left enough blood to get the sheets a little bloody, so that burning them gets rid of all the evidence? Do you have a 70 IQ too?

The amount of blood that would be present from someone getting their throat slashed is insane. In fact, it's one of the few things where Hollywooddownplaysthe amount of blood.

LiquidDeath_sl said:

God dammit. I wanted to shove that one in his face but Drtyrm beat me to it.

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Shove it in my face? You really have too much riding on this if you're that passionate about it

Elurin_sl said:

I don't feel like going over the rest of the stuff you posted, but you can't really believe this, can you? Slashing someone's throat only left enough blood to get the sheets a little bloody, so that burning them gets rid of all the evidence? Do you have a 70 IQ too?

The amount of blood that would be present from someone getting their throat slashed is insane. In fact, it's one of the few things where Hollywooddownplaysthe amount of blood.

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Where did I say she had her throat cut on the bed?? I'm clearly talking about other sources of dna

LiquidDeath_sl said:

You're wrong Jive. Dassey didn't volunteer any information about the hood latch. He was led to it by Fassbender just like every other key piece of his testimony.

From Reddit:

Before proceeding, it is important to note that in Brendan's interrogations by investigators, the RAV4 hood is introduced by Fassbender, and not Brendan:

F: OK, what else did he do, he did somethin' else, you need to tell us what he did, after that car is parked there. It's extremely important. (pause) Before you guys leave that car.
B: The he left the gun in the car.
F: That's not what I'm thinkin' about. He did something to that car. He took the plates and he, I believe he did something else in that car. (pause).
B: I don't know.
F: OK. Did he, did he, did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood at all or anything like that? To do something to the car?
B: Yeah.
F: What was that? (pause)
W: What did he do, Brendan?
W: It's OK, what did he do?
F: What did he do under the hood, if that's what he did? (pause)
B: I don't know what he did, but I know he went under.
F: He did raise the hood? (Brendan nods "yes") You remember that?
B: Yeah.
SOURCE:http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazon...Transcript.pdf

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Ya, apparently they were leading him to say that, but I'm not convinced it wasn't what happened. Fact is, his dna was on the latch and the battery was disconnected. What kind of foresight would someone have to have in order to assume there was Avery DNA on the latch and disconnect the battery??

And how about the cousin he was crying to at the party? So she tells her school councelor she's scared because Dassey told her Avery made him help move a body and he saw body parts in the fire. Dassey tells the investigators that he saw "toes" in the fire. Dassey reverses his story and says he didn't see body parts in the fire. His cousin now says she made it up too and just happened to mention the same detail.

Barraco Bisi_sl said:

Oh, the original statements she gave to officers Fassbender and and Wiegert?

Those guys wouldn't feed information to anyone!

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She went to her school councelor first, independent of the investigation

Intrinsic_sl said:

No one here is proclaiming SA's innocence, at best we've allowed for the fact he may have done it. The position of the thread at large as been the State's prosecution and case against SA, from what were shown, was poorly handled, suspicious, and at worst a conspiracy to ensure a conviction. Let alone to send away one grown man away for life without patrol but yet additionally a child with a borderline mentally retarded IQ. The whole thing has been a focus on the system and the process that led to this outcome along with the inherent presumption of innocence they should have. Regardless of being inbred hillbillies that like to jerk off in the front yard while cars drive by.

edit:Fucking text prediction on this tablet... Not going to fix all those stupid words, you get the idea!

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And I wouldn't disagree with anything you've said. But there seems to be this sentiment here that:
The police tampered with the investigation ergo, Avery is innocent.

popsicledeath_sl said:

Saw someone bring up the theory that it was a spare key, which is why it didn't have her dna on it. It sure looks like it could have been a spare. If that's a reasonable reason to explain the lack of her dna, then who would have had access to her belongings and potentially her spare key?

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The ex boyfriend could have the spare keyif he ever lived with her, which would also explain why it was a single key and all that.

The retarded kid part made me the most angry out of this whole show like everyone else. So damn shady, all of it.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

Shove it in my face? You really have too much riding on this if you're that passionate about it

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Chill dude, it is a turn of phrase.

I think the most likely scenario in this case is that SA killed, dismembered, and disposed of TH and that BD aided in disposing of the body. The killing and dismemberment probably occurred in or near the quarry and they brought her back on the property to dismember and burn her.

You don't appear to have watched the series with a very critical eye, though, because the entire point was to show how the state did not come close to meeting their burden of proof with their timeline or set of events for the crime. You, and the rest of society, should feel much more afraid of putting an innocent man in jail for life than for your safety because an accused murderer is on the lose when the state couldn't prove his guilt, and you should feel that way because it is possible that one day you are that innocent man.

LiquidDeath_sl said:

Chill dude, it is a turn of phrase.

I think the most likely scenario in this case is that SA killed, dismembered, and disposed of TH and that BD aided in disposing of the body. The killing and dismemberment probably occurred in or near the quarry and they brought her back on the property to dismember and burn her.

You don't appear to have watched the series with a very critical eye, though, because the entire point was to show how the state did not come close to meeting their burden of proof with their timeline or set of events for the crime. You, and the rest of society, should feel much more afraid of putting an innocent man in jail for life than for your safety because an accused murderer is on the lose when the state couldn't prove his guilt, and you should feel that way because it is possible that one day you are that innocent man.

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I got the point of the documentary. And it wasn't until I started looking into it moreafterwatching it that my opinion changed. They paint the picture of Avery as being just simple man going about his life when the truth seems to be much different. You don't need to google too hard to find a shit load of people who think he's innocent and are petitioning to have him released. Of course the investigators fucked up. There were no less than 3 episodes that ended with me saying "holy shit" because of how obvious it was (the blood vial in particular. That was movie quality shit). I just have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. He's clearly a piece of garbage and I think they probably put the right guy in jail, but through the worst methods possible. Was the trial problematic (*shudder* thanks for tainting that word, SWJs)? Absolutely. And the police should be investigated for it. But that doesn't mean I have to feel bad for Avery on top of that. I think theres some circumstantial evidence that points to Avery regardless of the obvious plants

Jive Turkey_sl said:

I'm saying Avery ditched the car

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So, how far away are you saying he drove the car to ditch it. And then, what, walked back? With a body he had to burn and/or a garage that needed professionally cleaned? And managed to wipe the car of all his finger prints, but didn't think to wipe up his own blood? The blood from the cut that looked as if it had been healed for weeks. The cut on his left hand, that would have reasonably left blood near the ignition how? And why?

If you think they'd let a salvage yard haul away crushed carsafterit was reported missing, you're insane.

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Who is they?

You mean a bunch of backwoods hillbillies who are in the business of scrapping cars and shady as fuck wouldn't know a single person with a big enough truck to haul away a few crushed cars. Woah, them Avery boys need some cars hauled off, better call the cops, huge red flag!

Hey, billybob, lookit that crushed car in a pile of 4 other crushed cars! Shure do look like that Toyota Rav4 that dem police be after!

That doesn't automatically make Avery innocent

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Court cases aren't tasked with finding innocence. They're tasked with guilty and not guilty. So not sure why you're so hung on up proving him not innocent. In fact, an ironic aspect of the documentary was how people will make up their mind based on everything but evidence and refuse to see anything any differently, because they already 'know' what happened and will self-serving bias their way into supporting what they already believe to know, which is really what it sounds like you're doing.