Man of Steel

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Void

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Those are all perfect examples of why I've never been able to stand Batman outside of the live-action movies. He's the ultimate example (even moreso than Wolverine) of the adage, "You're as powerful as your writer wants you to be." He loses to street thugs because it fits the story, not because he "wasn't prepared." I've said this exact same thing before when that gets brought up. If he's the Goddamn Batman and he learns and studies and prepares, after about the hundredth street thug kicking his ass, he would have that shit mastered don't you think? He would NEVER lose to a non-superpowered person ever again. His suit would be impervious to any handheld weapons, shit his utility belt would probably have a button that apprehended villains all by itself after that much "practice." So no, he doesn't lose because he hasn't prepared, he loses because it suits the writer. Which is also why he wins, even if it makes no sense for him to.

I've never read any of the Amazo stuff mentioned, but the very first part, putting C4 over his eyes...Superman's eyes wouldn't be damaged by C4, so if this guy is a copy, why were his? I guess if he's a robot I'll have to go along with your design flaw in the knees thing, but even if you take out his legs (I guess the defect was non-indestructible skin?), he can still fly at super speed. And as mentioned, Superman pisses nukes before breakfast every morning, it certainly won't knock him out, so why this guy?

Now, I'll grant you that someone with all the powers of the JLA would be hard to write into a comic with any chance of defeating him, so they had to do something. But just like The Walking Dead or Dexter, the method they chose can be torn apart so quickly it isn't even funny. But hey, it's Batman, so C4 works!

I realize I'm arguing that a comic book character doesn't make sense, but I just watched a page worth of videos explaining how Batman always wins, even against the ultimate powers in the universe, so my nerd jimmies are a bit rustled.
 
Cinge

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ugh batman. I would love to compare him to macgyver, but he doesn't even make his own shit, his "company" and workers make all the shit and he just borrows it(current iteration). Also super preparedness is probably one of the most lame superpowers I have ever heard of. It's as bad a kryptonite deux ex device. I always thought batman was lame, since he isn't really a superhero, just a rich dude with a lot of toys and trained to fight but I guess they had to give him something to be even be able to live for 5 seconds a actual super powered being(like how lex always has to have kryptonite).

A big reason this movie was pretty awesome, because it showed what would actually happen if 2 super powered beings fought, when they are equal. Whereas batman is always about fighting some crazy earth criminal(outside comics I guess where they give him a "super power" so he can actually be a threat). Though I will give credit to current batman movies, as they are about putting batman against himself and/or the city, instead of direct fights between 2 characters(though its hard to call them superhero movies).

I do think people relate to batman easier because its a simple exercise of "I just need to be rich and learn to fight" and wham you are there.
 
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Grizzlebeard_sl

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Thing is, I can name at least twenty memorable Batman villians.

Struggling to get past three for Supes. I'd imagine it's very hard to write entertaining stories where you hero is challenged when he's literally a god in human form. You can only play the, "Oh, he's lost his powers!" card so many times before people grow bored. And, let's be honest, without his powers he's nothing.

Batman is a detective, a scientist, a skilled martial artist, and just happens to have the money to fund his crime-fighting. He's just infinitely more interesting and, as has already been mentioned, there's the element in most of us that thinks being Batman is achievable, however unlikely, whereas no kid could ever aspire to be Superman.
 
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fucker_sl

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Lyrical_sl said:
When they fought, Batman put putty over Amazo's eyes, knowing that he'd use Superman's heat vision to burn through them. Only they were laced with C4, so he exploded his own eyes. .
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see, the whole thing falls out at this point (basically at the beginning). Because....what the fuck C4 can do against someone with Superman invulnerability, even in the eyes ?

it would make more sense if Batman had reality warping powers. Because it's the only way to explain how everyone fighting him gets retconned costantly so he can win

EDIT - meh. Vvoid said it already

Grizzlebeard_sl said:
Thing is, I can name at least twenty memorable Batman villians.

Struggling to get past three for Supes. I'd imagine it's very hard to write entertaining stories where you hero is challenged when he's literally a god in human form. You can only play the, "Oh, he's lost his powers!" card so many times before people grow bored. And, let's be honest, without his powers he's nothing.

Batman is a detective, a scientist, a skilled martial artist, and just happens to have the money to fund his crime-fighting. He's just infinitely more interesting and, as has already been mentioned, there's the element in most of us that thinks being Batman is achievable, however unlikely, whereas no kid could ever aspire to be Superman.
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on this we can agree. But superplanning nosense? it's the most stupid elements EVER used in comic books. It's a deux ex machina for comics. Nothing more. And even ancient Greeks thought deux ex machinas were lame shortcuts the author used to get himself out of a narrative corner
 
Valishar

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Grizzlebeard_sl said:
Thing is, I can name at least twenty memorable Batman villians.

Struggling to get past three for Supes.
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Luthor, Zod, Brainiac, Bizarro, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Doomsday.

Those six are probably as memorable as Batman's A-list villians.

The thing is that Batman literally has the best rogues gallery of any hero. It might be because Batman needs villians more for interesting storytelling actually. A lot of Superman stories in the silver age were Superman doing something like saving aliens, or travelling through time, or some kind of weird story where he changes bodies with Jimmy Olsen, or tries to trick Louis when she finds out he's Clark. Since essentially nothing was impossible the writers had a lot of wacky things for superman to do that didn't even need a villain.

Batman on the other hand had a lot less of those type of stories since he had no superpowers so the writers made more villians to compensate, otherwise he would be fighting street gangs every issue and that would be pretty boring.
 
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Grizzlebeard_sl

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fucker_sl said:
But superplanning nosense? it's the most stupid elements EVER used in comic books. It's a deux ex machina for comics. Nothing more. And even ancient Greeks thought deux ex machinas were lame shortcuts the author used to get himself out of a narrative corner
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It's not just Batman that does this though, it's pretty much every hero I can think of. It's a familiar and tired mechanic:
1) Story starts with the villian committing some nefarious act;
2) Hero encounters villian and barely escapes with his life;
3) Hero reflects on fight and comes up with tactic/gadget/ally to help him overcome villian;
4) Showdown then credits.

valishar_sl said:
Luthor, Zod, Brainiac, Bizarro, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Doomsday.
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Actually, yeah, there are more than a few. I've been watching a bunch of DC movies recently and have come across a bunch of Superman villians but none of them made much of an impact on me. Funnily enough the best of the bunch so far was the Flash alternate reality one where there's little to no sign of Superman but Aquaman and Wonder Woman are complete fuckers when they're let off the leash.
 
Caliane

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Grizzlebeard_sl said:
Thing is, I can name at least twenty memorable Batman villians.

Struggling to get past three for Supes. I'd imagine it's very hard to write entertaining stories where you hero is challenged when he's literally a god in human form. You can only play the, "Oh, he's lost his powers!" card so many times before people grow bored. And, let's be honest, without his powers he's nothing.

Batman is a detective, a scientist, a skilled martial artist, and just happens to have the money to fund his crime-fighting. He's just infinitely more interesting and, as has already been mentioned, there's the element in most of us that thinks being Batman is achievable, however unlikely, whereas no kid could ever aspire to be Superman.
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but that is just promotion.

The Flash has the best villians in all of comicdom. but YOU don't know them. Superman has great villians as well. But oh look. Lex luthor again. Zod Again. Lex luthor again. Zod again.
(Granted Joker is pretty bad as well. he really needs to stay dead.)
 
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Grizzlebeard_sl

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Caliane_sl said:
but that is just promotion.

The Flash has the best villians in all of comicdom. but YOU don't know them. Superman has great villians as well. But oh look. Lex luthor again. Zod Again. Lex luthor again. Zod again.
(Granted Joker is pretty bad as well. he really needs to stay dead.)
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The Flash is probably one of my favourite characters but outside of Prof Zoom you're struggling with anyone to really challenge him unless you have him in crossover stories.

I remember years ago playing the DC RPG and it had cards with all the DC characters stats on and they had Superman having faster superspeed than the Flash. I still don't think I've seen the Flash in the same light since then. Granted, after those stats were released he went on to learn time travel, essentially fly by running through the air, and vibrate his molecules so he can pass through solid objects.
 
Shonuff

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fucker_sl said:
see, the whole thing falls out at this point (basically at the beginning). Because....what the fuck C4 can do against someone with Superman invulnerability, even in the eyes ?
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Maybe they were laced with Kryptonite, or had some sort of magical compound he borrowed from Zatanna. With Batman, his conventional weaponry always hits way harder, probably because he's found a way to neutralize that person's powers. If your whole argument is based on C4 not being able to damage the eyes, you missed the point.
 
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fucker_sl

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so, basically you are telling me even the authors don't know how batman beat his opponents?

wow....he doesnt have just reality warping powers, he has 4th wall warping powers

or i give you another hypotesys: they have to create lame deus ex machinas to resolve their shitty storylines. period
 
Tuco

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Lyrical_sl said:
No one ever takes Batman serious in a fight (Superman, Amazo, Darkseid) because he has no superpowers, and then he just MacGuver's them to a KO. This is why Batman winsThat and because it's a fictional story, batman is a popular character and he's fun to write aboutand consequently, loses to normal powered beings that he hasn't prepared for.
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ftfy.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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it's hard to write a good piece on a superhero who is basically:

A) comes from a perfect family.

B) greatest superpower ever
 
Araysar

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I always find it hilarious how Batman defeats superheroes with world destroying superpowers like Superman or Darkseid. its such a ridiculous and preposterous deus ex machina.

Oh he is just really well prepared! To beat a guy who's the equivalent of god!

DC Comics is such a shitty universe. They should just spin off Batman and his rogues gallery into a separate Batman Universe and set the rest of DCU on fire.
 
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Grizzlebeard_sl said:
Thing is, I can name at least twenty memorable Batman villians.

Struggling to get past three for Supes. I'd imagine it's very hard to write entertaining stories where you hero is challenged when he's literally a god in human form. You can only play the, "Oh, he's lost his powers!" card so many times before people grow bored. And, let's be honest, without his powers he's nothing.

Batman is a detective, a scientist, a skilled martial artist, and just happens to have the money to fund his crime-fighting. He's just infinitely more interesting and, as has already been mentioned, there's the element in most of us that thinks being Batman is achievable, however unlikely, whereas no kid could ever aspire to be Superman.
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Yes because most kids that read comic books can relate to an insane, martial arts expert-billionaire, but not a lonely, socially awkward, outcast that secretly has super powers that impress everyone.
 
Void

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Araysar_sl said:
I always find it hilarious how Batman defeats superheroes with world destroying superpowers like Superman or Darkseid. its such a ridiculous and preposterous deus ex machina.

Oh he is just really well prepared! To beat a guy who's the equivalent of god!

DC Comics is such a shitty universe. They should just spin off Batman and his rogues gallery into a separate Batman Universe and set the rest of DCU on fire.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, as long as Batman is a tentpole of the DC Universe and they have to write stories to keep him that way, it will always be inferior to the Marvel Universe. At least their resident billionaire genius decided to give himself a flying iron suit to defeat bad guys with. And was a raging alcoholic, which is always awesome compared to "Waaah, my parents were killed in front of me!"
 
Shonuff

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Vvoid_sl said:
In my opinion, as long as Batman is a tentpole of the DC Universe and they have to write stories to keep him that way, it will always be inferior to the Marvel Universe. At least their resident billionaire genius decided to give himself a flying iron suit to defeat bad guys with. And was a raging alcoholic, which is always awesome compared to "Waaah, my parents were killed in front of me!"
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You are kidding, right? Tony Stark and the Black Panther have been running roughshod over the Marvel Universe since 2000. It's just as bad as Batman. Don't forget, in World War Hulk, when the Hulk got to the point he could fart and blow up the eastern seaboard, Tony whipped up a device to depower him. And Black Panther one shots Heralds of Galactus.

In comics, super preparedness > then all other super powers (whether Marvel or DC). All you need is a super genius + unlimited financial resources + incredible determination and you too can defeat gods.
 
Araysar

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Vvoid_sl said:
In my opinion, as long as Batman is a tentpole of the DC Universe and they have to write stories to keep him that way, it will always be inferior to the Marvel Universe. At least their resident billionaire genius decided to give himself a flying iron suit to defeat bad guys with. And was a raging alcoholic, which is always awesome compared to "Waaah, my parents were killed in front of me!"
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Its pretty ridiculous. The worst decision they made is to actually have Batman crossover with the rest of the DC universe. I think those 2 should have been kept separate and the Batman universe on its own would have been incredible. But when it gets muddled with Superman and the rest of DC universe it turns into such preposterous shit.

Marvel made the same mistake with Thor. Oh here's a millionaire in a robot suit fighting next to a Norse god and some goober with a bow and arrows. Enjoy!
 
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