Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Control

Control

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Khane said:
Doesn't seem like it matters if you're actually doing drugs, piss someone off and they can just shoot you and say "found drugs on him, had to execute for you Mr President."
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When you're in foreign countries, the "not pissing people off" part is probably more important than the "not doing drugs" part. The less western the country, the more true that is. (Don't do drugs either though.)
 
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Cutlery

Cutlery

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Been divorced for just about 4 and a half years. The GF moved in with me about 3 years ago. Now she's starting to ask about getting married and my answer is pretty simple. It's a "how does that benefit me?" And she's getting pretty upset at her lack of ability to come up with an answer.

"I just want a commitment that we can take our relationship to the next level!"

Sure, I guess. But since everyone has the right to change their mind, these commitments mean nothing. Since they mean nothing, why get the government involved in my relationship?

"If something happens to you, I am just out on my ass!"

First of all, no. The house goes to my daughter, but she ain't gonna throw you out. It's a 5 bedroom house, I'm sure there's room for both of you while you grieve, and eventually you'll move on, and she'll have what she's supposed to have.

"We are building a life together!"

No. I built my life already. I had kids already. I bought a house already. I set myself up already. You are coming into this with...what? Admittedly, excellent cooking skills, and a submissive mindset, but that's about it. Why the fuck do you think we are building a life? You had your 20s to build a life, and now you're pushing 40 and panicking because I won't put a ring on it.


This is all coming 2 weeks after my sister's relationship ended in the most hilarious way possible. They were "married", as in, they had a ceremony, but did no paperwork. My sister owns the house, he pays her. She gets a call on lunch one day from a company asking for a rental reference for her "tenant."

Tenant? You mean my husband?

She calls him immediately and gets a "oh, uhh, I was planning to stick around until I found a place." And she said "either you can call your mom, or I will."

And what's the first thing everyone told her?

"Thank God you weren't actually married"


I'm really confused why she's so upset I won't marry her in light of all of this.
 
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Tarrant

Tarrant

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The only thing I can see from her point of view is you saying you aren’t building a life together. Yeah you had all you wanted for the most part before hand, you still wanted something more, hence her being there.

you’re building an emotional life together which inevitably leaks into every other facet of your life as well. If you aren’t “building a life together” then what, she’s just around to fuck and cook? Some sort of growth has to exist otherwise it’s not going to be a fulfilling relationship…at least, not on her end.

Im not invalidating your own feelings on the matter, but in that one single aspect I can see where she may be upset.

If it’s a dealbreaker for you though I’d for sure let her know now instead of her going the route she appears to on “hopefully I ware him down eventually”. If it’s not a dealbreaker let her know you expect a prenuptial on everything pertaining to your current finances as well as future with regards to your business and what not.

or see if it goes away, but I doubt that happens without you bluntly telling her it’s not happening.
 
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Khane

Khane

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Men get some societal pressure to get married and settle down and be one of the "normies" but it's not nearly the same as the level of shame and grief women experience if they aren't married.

For every one question you ask her about why marriage is important there are probably 30 other people she knows asking her why you aren't asking her to marry you and giving her all the normal "he's using you" type responses as to why you aren't worth her time if you don't want to get married.

You're probably aware of all of that but a woman stuck between a man that won't get married and all of her friends and family giving her grief about that very fact is probably not a very fun place for her to be.
 
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Cutlery

Cutlery

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Khane said:
Men get some societal pressure to get married and settle down and be one of the "normies" but it's not nearly the same as the level of shame and grief women experience if they aren't married.

For every one question you ask her about why marriage is important there are probably 30 other people she knows asking her why you aren't asking her to marry you and giving her all the normal "he's using you" type responses as to why you aren't worth her time if you don't want to get married.

You're probably aware of all of that but a woman stuck between a man that won't get married and all of her friends and family giving her grief about that very fact is probably not a very fun place for her to be.
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That's actually something I have not thought about in a long while, so thanks for that. That does help put 3 days of crying into perspective.

Thankfully I think it's pretty hard to classify our relationship as me using her. We don't argue, don't fight, leave each other alone, enjoy each other's company, have a good division of labor, help each other out with our projects. It's honestly a pretty good relationship, and I'd say I'm kinda happy with it.

i just don't know how you walk out of a divorce owing 100k and then go "you know what seems like a good time? GETTING FUCKING MARRIED, WHOOO!"
 
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Khane

Khane

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Cutlery said:
That's actually something I have not thought about in a long while, so thanks for that. That does help put 3 days of crying into perspective.

Thankfully I think it's pretty hard to classify our relationship as me using her. We don't argue, don't fight, leave each other alone, enjoy each other's company, have a good division of labor, help each other out with our projects. It's honestly a pretty good relationship, and I'd say I'm kinda happy with it.

i just don't know how you walk out of a divorce owing 100k and then go "you know what seems like a good time? GETTING FUCKING MARRIED, WHOOO!"
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I agree with you and have pretty much the same view of marriage.

I've also been in this position a few times and I always ended up being an asshole even when I was never trying to be.

I'm not sure if it's possible for two people with diametrically opposed views on marriage to make it long term. Even if everything else works and is great.

It sucks, but just that one difference in opinion is pretty hard to overcome.

If her friends/family start getting bold enough to challenge you on the subject in public/social settings that's when things turn bad quick for a relationship.
 
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Fogel

Fogel

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You just need to pound home the fact that any ring, ceremony, etc is exactly that, just ceremony, and people break it all the time. So would she rather have some empty symbol or the current status quo which has been you showing up and being there for her every day for the last 3+ years and continuing to do that.
 
Omi43221

Omi43221

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Cutlery said:
That's actually something I have not thought about in a long while, so thanks for that. That does help put 3 days of crying into perspective.

Thankfully I think it's pretty hard to classify our relationship as me using her. We don't argue, don't fight, leave each other alone, enjoy each other's company, have a good division of labor, help each other out with our projects. It's honestly a pretty good relationship, and I'd say I'm kinda happy with it.

i just don't know how you walk out of a divorce owing 100k and then go "you know what seems like a good time? GETTING FUCKING MARRIED, WHOOO!"
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I am in pretty much exactly the same boat as you are in. I sat my girlfriend down and told her that I appreciate her wanting to get married and if that's a deal breaker so be it, but my last marriage imploded in the worst way possible and there is no way I'm ever getting married again. She hasn't ever mentioned it again.
 
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Cutlery

Cutlery

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Khane said:
I agree with you and have pretty much the same view of marriage.

I've also been in this position a few times and I always ended up being an asshole even when I was never trying to be.

I'm not sure if it's possible for two people with diametrically opposed views on marriage to make it long term. Even if everything else works and is great.

It sucks, but just that one difference in opinion is pretty hard to overcome.

If her friends/family start getting bold enough to challenge you on the subject in public/social settings that's when things turn bad quick for a relationship.
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I am 100% prepared for her to walk over this. I know it's a distinct possibility.

However, when I say that to her, she usually comes back with "I don't wanna walk. I know what I've got, I enjoy my life with you."

Great. Then stop this silly word nonsense, and let's just do what we're doing. What do you want? A ring? I can buy you a fucking ring.

But I don't see why the government needs to get involved. It kinda makes sense when you're young and starting a family. You're working together, having kids, buying a house, all that. This ain't that. I've got kids. I'm fixed, I'm not having more. I've got a house. I've got my life. And if you leave....well, I still have all that because it's fucking mine.

And that's the way it needs to stay.
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Cutlery said:
I am 100% prepared for her to walk over this. I know it's a distinct possibility.

However, when I say that to her, she usually comes back with "I don't wanna walk. I know what I've got, I enjoy my life with you."

Great. Then stop this silly word nonsense, and let's just do what we're doing. What do you want? A ring? I can buy you a fucking ring.

But I don't see why the government needs to get involved. It kinda makes sense when you're young and starting a family. You're working together, having kids, buying a house, all that. This ain't that. I've got kids. I'm fixed, I'm not having more. I've got a house. I've got my life. And if you leave....well, I still have all that because it's fucking mine.

And that's the way it needs to stay.
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Well you have to nail down precisely what she wants in lieu of marriage. A ring, a legal agreement that your estate will provide for her for X amount of months in the event of your untimely death (not that I expect you raised a daughter who would turn her out on her ass, but grief does things to people), etc.

And you need to be sure that there is no way for her to backdoor her way into being considered married, google says Minnesota is not a common law state but god knows if there are any loopholes around that, then there must also be lawyers/guides out there on how to exploit those loopholes.
 
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Hoss

Hoss

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Crone said:
I keep smoking and the wife keeps asking if I'm smoking of which I tell her no! Multiple times. I'm hiding it from her because I know she'd shut that shit down, and I don't want to stop smoking.
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Like Kaines said, that's addict behavior. Go to some meetings bro. Maybe take her with you so she understands the lies were because of the addiction. Not that it excuses lying but at least it will frame it up in a way that maybe she can trust you as long as drugs aren't involved.

Actually, scratch taking her (unless she wants to go), at the meetings they will talk about making amends as one of the steps.
 
Hoss

Hoss

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Cutlery said:
"I just want a commitment that we can take our relationship to the next level!"

Sure, I guess. But since everyone has the right to change their mind, these commitments mean nothing. Since they mean nothing, why get the government involved in my relationship?
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She wants to be married. If you don't then you're wasting her time. If you cared about her there would be some small amount of value placed on making her feel happy and secure. Security is a man's primary function in the relationship.

Have her sign up here so I can tell her she needs to walk.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Tarrant said:
Are both of you opposed to just a ceremony with no government intervention?
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More along the lines of asset protection. If you do that and get divorced a second time you get taken to the cleaners again. Surviving that once is enough for most people I would think. Yourself included.
 
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C

Captain Suave

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Tarrant said:
Are both of you opposed to just a ceremony with no government intervention?
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You need to be careful of backing into common law marriage (varies by state) especially if you make any claims about the relationship status, however non-governmental they may be.
 
Cutlery

Cutlery

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TJT said:
More along the lines of asset protection. If you do that and get divorced a second time you get taken to the cleaners again. Surviving that once is enough for most people I would think. Yourself included.
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There's a guy at work who gave 2 houses to the same woman.

Got married, got divorced, gave her the house.

A few years later, rekindle shit, try again, get married again, got divorced again, gave her another house.

No thanks.

Re: asset protection.

I honestly thought I'd be married to my ex forever. Never in a million years thought about divorce. Not until she served me with an OFP that said I couldn't go to the house I own for a year.

I escaped that with my house, predominant custody of my girls, my pension, and all I had to do was fork out her equity in the house. I was EXTREMELY lucky, and every single one of you guys posting in this thread knows that.

Play double or nothing? Nah. I'm good.
 
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Tarrant

Tarrant

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I don’t blame ya, but you need to let her know it’s never gonna happen and if she think it is, she’s wrong and if it’s a dealbreaker better for her to walk now than later.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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If only there were some kind of legal agreements that two people could enter into prior to marriage to outline what would happen in the event the marriage didn't work out.



Oh well... I guess we can all dream.
 
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Tarrant

Tarrant

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Kaines said:
If only there were some kind of legal agreements that two people could enter into prior to marriage to outline what would happen in the event the marriage didn't work out.



Oh well... I guess we can all dream.
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I already suggested that! You can even get ones that protect future asset accrued over preexisting businesses as well.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Tarrant said:
I already suggested that! You can even get ones that protect future asset accrued over preexisting businesses as well.
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My apologies. I don't keep up with every post. But if he's not even willing to do that, then yeah, Hoss Hoss is right. Cut her loose.
 
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