Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Khane

Khane

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Talking about things you're unhappy with in life with friends and family is human nature and everyone does it. That's normal and actually healthy and therapeutic. That isn't an issue. What I take issue with is when a woman (or man) starts to berate and belittle their significant other publicly and starts to show a complete lack of respect for their partner. That's drama, and that's intolerable.
 
lindz

lindz

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Honestly I've come to find that talking about the problems I'm having about my husband WITH my husband makes me happier a lot quicker. Yeah sounds cliche, but makes things a lot smoother for me. Only problem is sometimes you can let it build too much so I try not to let it get there.

Also we're both total loners who much rather talk to one another than others.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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I agree, not bottling up your frustrations until they become so volatile that they explode out of you at the tiniest slight is pretty important. I've been heard to encourage my wife to bitch to her mom friends (even if its about me) when I'm at a loss or just not in the mood to listen to her anxious prattling. It doesn't happen often, but sometimes I just can't be bothered to care about the drama that happened between two mothers or their children.

As far as drama goes, it's definitely case by case from woman to woman. I've only dated a couple of chicks (out of dozens) that have been "public shamers" or whatever you want to call it. My sample is almost certainly skewed though because I never even bothered with chicks who showed obvious signs of being overly dramatic.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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Tell me more of these dozens of chicks you've dated! You must be a 90 year old Don Juan!
 
Frenzied Wombat

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Having lived in Canada (32 years), Israel (2 months), Spain (4 months), France (1 year), and the US (7 years) I can definitely tell you that while female drama is pretty much universal, it is by FAR the worst in the USA. The differentiating reasons to me have been pretty easy to discern:

1) Hollywood's glorification of the likes of Paris Hilton that show young girls that being vapid, brain dead, and hot is all you really need to succeed in life. Then throw in shit like Real Housewives that basically say "look hot and marry rich" is what you need to do to succeed.

2) The conflict between normal sexual desires and North American culture that dictates if a chick sleeps around she's a slut. This causes all sorts of gossiping drama, backstabbing, and feelings of sexual guilt. Chicks in Montreal (French ones), France, and Spain will just openly state they want to fuck you, and doing so doesn't incur judgment from their friends/family. The girls in Israel weren't as forward as the other countries, but expected very little courtship and would cut right through all the BS if they liked you. P.S: Don't break up with an Israeli girl to her face unless you like getting your ass kicked. Seriously.

3) North American double standard feminism: Somehow in North America we've reached a point where women have emancipated themselves from stereotypical roles/functions (like cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc) while retaining the "beneficial" pre-feminism traditions such as "man paying, flowers, holding door open, letting women off/on elevator first, man takes out trash, man fixes shit around house, etc). This has created a whole generation of spoiled entitled chicks.

4) There seems to be a high preponderance for gender based child activities in the US. The thought of sending my hypothetical daughter to do cheerleading after school rather than say, swimming, is absolutely horrifying to me. However from what I can tell most mom's here would be giddy with pride that their daughter made the cheer team..

5) Probably the biggest doozy is there are a LOT more unstable, poor, broken families here than in countries that have socialized education and healthcare. Less broken families= less daddy issues = less drama

This is NOT to say that there aren't lots of perfectly normal chicks in the US, but what really differentiates them vs other countries is that in the US, the hotter the chick is the crazier she seems to be. Women here are just basically trained from a young age that if you're hot, that's all you need to thrive.
 
Noodleface

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3) North American double standard feminism: Somehow in North America we've reached a point where women have emancipated themselves from stereotypical roles/functions (like cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc) while retaining the "beneficial" pre-feminism traditions such as "man paying, flowers, holding door open, letting women off/on elevator first, man takes out trash, man fixes shit around house, etc). This has created a whole generation of spoiled entitled chicks.

This one bugs me the most. Reminds me of that comic about a girl asking a man to move a couch and him asking her to suck his dick since we're going back to gender stereotypes.
 
Xequecal

Xequecal

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There's also the fact that the US isn't as culturally homogenous as most other countries, and the problems associated with that spill over into everything. For example, the female favored family court system sure looks unfair from our perspective, but that's looking at it from a culture where the man is actually expected to help raise the kid. The fact is, three-fourths of black kids and one-half of Hispanic kids are raised in single-parent households, because the man is simply not expected to help. He just fucks off and nobody cares, and the courts are the only thing around that are going to make him contribute.
 
Haast

Haast

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Rhuobhe_sl said:
I think some of you are out of touch with the drama issue. It's unavoidable and there needs to be some tolerance on both sides. You really think your wife doesn't talk shit about you to her BFF - you talk like that is totally unacceptable and grounds for not being in a relationship. That type of mentality creates those old guys you know, the ones who were married 5 times and boast about how they have never conformed to anything.
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If this is in response to me, I may have poorly worded a point. When I say "slanders you to friends/family", I don't mean the one-on-one chat she has with a trusted friend or family member to get her head straight after an argument, or her occasionally telling her friends how frustrated she is with you not taking out the garbage. That's normal.

I mean when someone goes out of their way to start bad-mouthing their partner to any friend/family member that will listen and gets into some personal shit that is between the two of you. THAT is a big problem.

Breaching trust and physical violence are the Pandora's Box issues in a relationship.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
H

3) North American double standard feminism: Somehow in North America we've reached a point where women have emancipated themselves from stereotypical roles/functions (like cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc) while retaining the "beneficial" pre-feminism traditions such as "man paying, flowers, holding door open, letting women off/on elevator first, man takes out trash, man fixes shit around house, etc). This has created a whole generation of spoiled entitled chicks.
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yeah, they only looked at "oppressive feature" and not really understanding "responsibility" of the household. That working outside is a "privilege" of men. That it was not the burden of men. only looked at the social roles of men and women from individualistic aspect but never from family. Hence the glorification of "single woman."
 
TrollfaceDeux

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Xequecal_sl said:
There's also the fact that the US isn't as culturally homogenous as most other countries, and the problems associated with that spill over into everything. For example, the female favored family court system sure looks unfair from our perspective, but that's looking at it from a culture where the man is actually expected to help raise the kid. The fact is, three-fourths of black kids and one-half of Hispanic kids are raised in single-parent households, because the man is simply not expected to help. He just fucks off and nobody cares, and the courts are the only thing around that are going to make him contribute.
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i guess the word you are looking for is deadbeat dad.

but how much power does court have over poor ass black thugs who deals in drugs?

EDIT:http://www.canadiancrc.com/Fatherlessness/deadbeats.pdf

In fact, no evidence exists that large numbers of fathers voluntarily abandon their children. No government or academic study has ever demonstrated such an epidemic, and those studies that have addressed the question directly have concluded otherwise.

Braver also found that when they are employed, virtually all divorced fathers pay the child support they owe and that the number of arrearages "estimated" by the government is derived not from any actual statistics but from surveys. The Census Bureau simply asked mothers whether they were receiving payments. No data exists to corroborate the mothers' claims.

The system of collecting child support is no longer one of requiring men to take responsibility for their offspring, as most people believe. The combination of "no fault" divorce and the new enforcement law has created a system that pays mothers to divorce their husbands and remove children from their fathers. 'By allowing a faithless wife to keep her children and a sizable portion of her former spouse's income," writes Bryce Christensen, "current child-support laws have combined with no-fault jurisprudence to convert wedlock into snare for many guiltless men.'" Centuries of common-law precedent protected fathers from this possibility. 'The duty of a father (now spouse) to support his children is based largely upon his right to their custody and control," ran a ruling typical of the age-old consensus.' A father has the right at Common Law to maintain his children in his own home, and he cannot be compelled against his will to do so elsewhere, unless he has refused or failed to provide for them where he lives.' While few were paying attention, new laws have completely overturned this principle and created a system, as attorney Jed Abraham writes, whereby 'a father is forced to finance the filching of his own children.'
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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As a father who who has proven to the court not once, but twice that my childrens mother is unfit to raise them and being told children belong with the mother unless in physical danger from her I can fully attest to the system being unfairly geared to favor women.
 
Falstaff

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Tarrant_sl said:
As a father who who has proven to the court not once, but twice that my childrens mother is unfit to raise them and being told children belong with the mother unless in physical danger from her I can fully attest to the system being unfairly geared to favor women.
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male or female judges?
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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Male.

My kids live in an area where there is no family court, a civil court takes care of everything. (Up in the middle of no where Minnesota, we call it the Iron Range here) They are stuck in the past in terms of social structure and hate outsiders.

The last time I tried to get my kids I hired a PI to follow my ex around as well as my kids. I almost bankrupted myself but I got photos of my at the time 3 year old daughter playing several blocks away from home unsupervised, my 5 year old walking across town to the park by himself, her leaving the kids home alone for hours at a time as well as photos of her using her child support debit card at the bar to buy drinks for her and her friends.

When my lawyer provided this the judge told me if I ever hired a professional stalker to follow my ex wife ever again he'd make sure I never saw my children again and my case pretty much ended right then and there. My lawyer said he'd never do another case up there...this of course didn't get my retainer fee or anything else back from him. heh. I filed to get my case transfered to the family court for the county but was denied.

My biggest pet peeve is dead beat fathers who ruin it for people like me. My kids live 4 hours north of me, I talk to them on the phone 2 to 3 times a week, I drive up there for a few of their baseball/soccer games every season, I drive up there for school conferences and I only get them maybe 3-5 days every 4 weeks if I'm lucky. Otherwise I drive up there and stay a weekend and see them when I can. (which isn't nearly as often as I'd like)

I live 4 hours away from them and remain heavily involved in their lives yet I know of guys who live 15 minutes from their children and have nothing to do with them and remain unemployed so they don't have to pay more than $100 a month in child support.

My oldest is 10, 11 in Jan. My daughter is 7. I haven't lived with her since just before she turned 2 and she has very little memory of living with me. The guy her mother had her affair with still lives with them and she hates him and loves me and is the biggest daddys girl ever. My ex wife gets mad at me all the time over it and I explained to her that my daughter has lived with him for most of the life she remembers, her relationship with him should be good and have no issues. It's not my fault the guy is a douche and she hates him. I never say anything negative about either of them, parental alienation is a bunch of BS and I won't take part in it.

Anyways....dead beat dads can die in a fire.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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one of odd social phenomenon is that womenexpectschildren to be theirs. So they go crazy when they can't have children around them/and will do anything to take possession of them. Fathers will have to spend fortune if they want to win. ANd since women will be using father's resources in the very same divorce proceeding (I think), fathers have so much to lose by fighting. Judges/court also reflect such bias. 50/50 is bullshit nonsense when it comes to divorce. Funny thing is that it hasn't always been like this and divorce proceedings more often than not favoured those who could provide for the children. Children often side with mothers anyhow, depending on the time they spend with her while father is working outside (speaking from my personal experience). Also, their relationship problems and so on, children are more likely to side with mother because of fear that someone might not be there for them in case of divorce (since father will be working and they will be alone).

Unless mothers are insanely crazy and children despise them, it will be very difficult to obtain custody.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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Both my children have told me they want to live with me. The court wont consider their words or wishes though until they are at least 13 and even then it'll be a struggle.

At that point though my son will have his established social circile of friends in jr high/high school and his sister wouldn't be allowed to come with until she goes though the same process and he has no family other than me and his brother I have from this marriage. I'm not sure if that train of through will be the same for him once he's 13. I hope it is, but I won't hold it against him if it's not.

In the end, their happiness is what matters most to me. -shrug-
 
TrollfaceDeux

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Tarrant_sl said:
Both my children have told me they want to live with me. The court wont consider their words or wishes though until they are at least 13 and even then it'll be a struggle.
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Yeah, it's an odd thing. Wishes of the children are probably overridden by the "best interest of the child."
 
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