Marvel Universe stuff

fris · Aug 26, 2021

Covid and people not wanting or being able to go to the theater is hurting box office numbers far more than the woke agenda.

shang isn't even out yet, male lead, why is there an assumption that it's filled with woke agenda enough to hurt sales?

Chukzombi · Aug 26, 2021

fris said:
Covid and people not wanting or being able to go to the theater is hurting box office numbers far more than the woke agenda.

shang isn't even out yet, male lead, why is there an assumption that it's filled with woke agenda enough to hurt sales?

its being marketed as an all asian cast and asian directed movie. why does it need to be all asian? why did black panther have to be marketed as all black cast and black directed? why did Captain Marvel have to be marketed as female lead and female directed? its just virtue signalling bullshit. even if the movie is any good, thats purely secondary to why it was made.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Chukzombi said:
its being marketed as an all asian cast and asian directed movie. why does it need to be all asian? why did black panther have to be marketed as all black cast and black directed? why did Captain Marvel have to be marketed as female lead and female directed? its just virtue signalling bullshit. even if the movie is any good, thats purely secondary to why it was made.

I mean lets not be under any illusions about why these movies are being made. They are being made to make $$$ and market research showed them that even if its generally marketed and made with as Asian cast with an Asian director, the general movie going public gives zero shits that it wasnt a white dude or a white director (who 95% of the movie going audience dont pay attention to anyways). Kids want to see Marvel super hero shit, teens want to go out with friends and fanboys will see anything with the MCU logo on it. What marketing like that will do is let corps say they are being progressive (which they are) and they care about it (which they don't). With that in mind it becomes a net win for them, because they get good press, more exposure, and more eyeballs on the marketing of the movie which could get people to go see it. Disney nor Marvel give two rat fucks about a youtuber complaining about Sang Chi being woke, it just doesn't move the needle enough.

As to Black Widow doing badly one last point: Box Office Mojo has it listed as making 389 million. Add in 250 million from streaming (double the amount since Disney get 100%) and if you give it Captain Marvel's China number of 150 million you get 789 million during COVID, which is damn impressive and which is more then GoTG with a smaller budget 200 mill vs 233 mill. These are HUGE films, and will continue that way until they are constantly bad, which they haven't been yet.

Xarpolis · Aug 26, 2021

Pogi.G said:
I hope this article is wrong about Marvel going full-woke for phase 4, but in todays hollywood climate, it's probably true.

In the words of our beloved Trump, everything woke turns to shit.

Marvel Woke A Disaster: 'Eternals' Delayed With 'Shang-Chi' Box Office Bomb | Cosmic Book News

Kevin Feige's woke Phase 4 approach is turning out to be a disaster of epic proportions as now it is reported that if Shang-Chi bombs at the box office, which it is expected to do, that Disney will delay the release of Eternals.

cosmicbook.news

How is Shang Chi a box office bomb? It doesn't come out until the 3rd.

Chukzombi · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
I mean lets not be under any illusions about why these movies are being made. They are being made to make $$$ and market research showed them that even if its generally marketed and made with as Asian cast with an Asian director, the general movie going public gives zero shits that it wasnt a white dude or a white director (who 95% of the movie going audience dont pay attention to anyways). Kids want to see Marvel super hero shit, teens want to go out with friends and fanboys will see anything with the MCU logo on it. What marketing like that will do is let corps say they are being progressive (which they are) and they care about it (which they don't). With that in mind it becomes a net win for them, because they get good press, more exposure, and more eyeballs on the marketing of the movie which could get people to go see it. Disney nor Marvel give two rat fucks about a youtuber complaining about Sang Chi being woke, it just doesn't move the needle enough.

the reason why white people get movies catered to them isnt due to racism, its because white people are the key demo for these kinds of films, you move away from that key demo and you get films like this Chachi movie and then this Eternals shit which nobody wants to pay to see. minorities dont give a fuck either because they know they are getting pandered to by being thrown some knockoff Marvel characters their way. they also have their own heroes in their own cultures. asians dont give a shit about Chachi and his ten rings. Disney's marketing is way off on this and has been for years now.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

I'm not arguing that white people are not a key demographic, I'm saying the same thing the market researchers told Disney, that doing it this way will get more butts into seats then it loses because its an Asian super hero since at this point the MCU is a self sustaining monster. If making Sang Chi the way it is resonates with the Asian American population or better yet the Chinese population its a damn home run. I mean really what do you think people think when they see the MCU logo? Hey these people look like me? or MCU is generally representative of generally solid quality movies and shows? Its the latter which will always get more people to watch something then the race of anyone involved.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Xarpolis said:
How is Shang Chi a box office bomb? It doesn't come out until the 3rd.

They are basing it off of the box office predictions which are not stellar atm. New hero, Delta variant, pessimism over COVID (remember when Widow cam e out COVID felt like it was wrapping up), no china release, no Disney Premiere access. I for the life of me don't understand why they are not streaming this as well. Maybe ScarJo's lawsuit has something to do with it, IDK, its pretty dumb in my book. A Disney executive called this movie being theater only a big experiment, which I think they honestly believe. If it does well then it shows people are more comfortable going to the movies, if it doesn't I think they will still push Eternals out in November but will do it like Black Widow.

McCheese · Aug 26, 2021

I hope it bombs (and it obviously will given the current state of the world and movie theaters, no matter how good or bad it is). Fuck movie theaters. Put everything to streaming.

Chukzombi · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
I'm not arguing that white people are not a key demographic, I'm saying the same thing the market researchers told Disney, that doing it this way will get more butts into seats then it loses because its an Asian super hero since at this point the MCU is a self sustaining monster. If making Sang Chi the way it is resonates with the Asian American population or better yet the Chinese population its a damn home run. I mean really what do you think people think when they see the MCU logo? Hey these people look like me? or MCU is generally representative of generally solid quality movies and shows? Its the latter which will always get more people to watch something then the race of anyone involved.

others mileage may vary, what i look for when i see an MCU film is, where's Tony? where's Cap? whats Natasha up to? oh yeah, they're all dead. who are these people? Chachi? Kumar? WTF!? dont care. later.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Chukzombi said:
others mileage may vary, what i look for when i see an MCU film is, where's Tony? where's Cap? whats Natasha up to? oh yeah, they're all dead. who are these people? Chachi? Kumar? WTF!? dont care. later.

And I agree that is the big hurdle. I kind of appreciate they are not rebooting shit every 5-10 years as actors contracts expire like DCU, and Fox Marvel did. The success of the OG Avengers ironically hurt them because they cant do another Iron Man or Cap really at all. RDJ and Chris Evans and hell even ScarJo because so iconic with their roles that the general audience would be like where the fuck did they go I don't want to see "X actor here" I wanted to see RDJ giving everyone snark.

They may very well do Iron Heart, I think its boring but Stark tech is since a big part of the MCU they have to do something. I wasn't a huge fan of Falcon becoming CA, but its because Anthony Mackie is missing the "thing" Evans brought to the role. I think Denzel Washington's kid would have been better but Mackie is established. They needed to flesh out the lineup without adding mutants or Fantastic Four yet so who do you add? I'd have been down with a Daredevil film with the guy from the TV show but they have done so many of the characters already and not all of them are interesting enough for solo films.

Valderen · Aug 26, 2021

It's going to be really hard to evaluate the success of Phase 4.

For one thing, it comes after what was essentially the conclusion of a 10 years story arc, so I think there will be a bit of loss of interest just for that fact alone, some people will see it as an exit point of some sort especially considering point number 2.

The second thing is that they are losing some main actors(characters) that have been an important part of the MCU a bit with Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson and the death of Chadwick Boseman. Sure new actors and characters will be introduced, but I doubt they'll have the impact of Iron Man and Captain America in particular.

A third thing is obviously the pandemic and the impact it has on box office numbers. People are not going back to the theater right now, and most likely not to the level it was before. Streaming is part of that, especially shorter delays between the movie being in the theater and available to stream. I was barely going before the pandemic, only going for the MCU and Star Wars movies and a few event type movies. Mostly because I didn't want to wait 3-6 months before being to watch it at home. 45 days wait, I'm all in.

Lastly, the fact that the MCU is going woke to some extent is going to hurt a little, not as much as people think. I don't think a Black Female Iron Man is going to be as big an issue as Iron Man not being Robert Downey Jr...anyone else in the suit was going to be a downgrade anyways and never close as popular. The same for the rest, Sam is fine as Captain America in my opinion...but he's not Chris Evans and noone will top him either.

All of these will make it very difficult for Phase 4 to follow up to Phase 1 to 3. It will be hard for us to know which factor will have the biggest impact though.

Personally I want to see Shang-Chi, it looks like a fun movie to me, I'll wait 45 days to see it on Disney+ though. While I look forward to seeing the movie, I doubt he's going to have a big impact on the MCU.

The Eternals I still have very little interest in, all the characters look boring and bland. Again I'll see when it comes to Disney+ but in this case, just because it's an MCU movie rather than genuine interest in the movie itself.

Spider-man looks really cool though, and I am excited for it. Again, not going to the theater for it...waiting either for Disney+ or wherever it ends up being on.

I'm looking forward to Dr. Strange and Thor...even with the Female Thor, I'm giving Taika and Hemsworth the benefit of the doubt because of how great Ragnarok was.

Still I think the MCU glory days are behind in the past. I'm still cautiously optimistic that we'll get good movies still just not as good...and maybe more misses than before since they are going deep with C and D characters. They won't all be success like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Worse case scenario we got 10 years and 20+ movies of great MCU. Something I'd never thought I'd see.

Chukzombi · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
And I agree that is the big hurdle. I kind of appreciate they are not rebooting shit every 5-10 years as actors contracts expire like DCU, and Fox Marvel did. The success of the OG Avengers ironically hurt them because they cant do another Iron Man or Cap really at all. RDJ and Chris Evans and hell even ScarJo because so iconic with their roles that the general audience would be like where the fuck did they go I don't want to see "X actor here" I wanted to see RDJ giving everyone snark.

They may very well do Iron Heart, I think its boring but Stark tech is since a big part of the MCU they have to do something. I wasn't a huge fan of Falcon becoming CA, but its because Anthony Mackie is missing the "thing" Evans brought to the roll. I think Denzel Washington's kid would have been better but Mackie is established. They needed to flesh out the lineup without adding mutants or Fantastic Four yet so who do you add? I'd have been down with a Daredevil film with the guy from the TV show but they have done so many of the characters already and not all of them are interesting enough for solo films.

we know who would have been the logical choices. Cap should have been replaced by Bucky, i dont give a shit what his status as a terroist is, they could have made that work by some clever writing. but if they gave this to another white guy it would have been seen as racist or something. when they killed off Natasha, she died and stayed dead. when they killed off Gamorah, she died and was brought right back in the next film because black green people. when they killed off Tony, he could have worked his way back, the dude was a genius with tech and built a fucking time machine in his spare time. there was wiggle room to get him back. so now they give the IM suit to some black girl who stole his tech. not even a Stark employee or a protege, but she stole his tech. fantastic. these are bad decisions being made and not from a money making stance, but from a progressive stance. people want Cap Tony and Natasha and we will never have them again and they are giving us mediocre trash and expect people not to notice.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Chukzombi said:
we know who would have been the logical choices. Cap should have been replaced by Bucky, i dont give a shit what his status as a terroist is, they could have made that work by some clever writing. but if they gave this to another white guy it would have been seen as racist or something. when they killed off Natasha, she died and stayed dead. when they killed off Gamorah, she died and was brought right back in the next film because black green people. when they killed off Tony, he could have worked his way back, the dude was a genius with tech and built a fucking time machine in his spare time. there was wiggle room to get him back. so now they give the IM suit to some black girl who stole his tech. not even a Stark employee or a protege, but she stole his tech. fantastic. these are bad decisions being made and not from a money making stance, but from a progressive stance. people want Cap Tony and Natasha and we will never have them again and they are giving us mediocre trash and expect people not to notice.

It plays into their philosophy on bringing back dead characters based on actors contracts. You are 100% correct they could bring anyone back at any time, and they even introduced the means to do it, but Evans, RDJ and ScarJo were just done playing the characters. So you can recast or move on, and I think since they are treating this as a giant storyline spanning decades they are moving on. Gamora was bright back because she has interest in continuing and they had a way to make it work into the movie.

It comes down to what you want in these movies, if you are fine recasting they could have Iron Man forever with zero stakes (for as much stakes as these movies ever have), or you could have a guy play him for more then a decade, have everyone love the character and actor and when he sacrifices himself its a super powerful sad scene because you wont see him again. He wont be recast 2 years later played by someone who cannot possibly live up to it, and have nerds constantly arguing who is the better Tony Stark.

I will agree having Winter Soldier become CA would have been great, but Sebastian Stan might not want to do this for as long, and this gives the opportunity to lose his shit and beat the fuck out of Captain America which is always fun.

Its also why I am actually interested in Julia Louis-Dreyfus team she is assembling since its going to be the asshole version of the avengers. US Agent was fantastic, Abomination is in Sang Chi, Kate Bishop will be in Hawkeye with Black Widow's sister, all they are missing is Iron Man so I hope I see Sam Rockwell do his Iron Man 2 dance into the group in some Hammer tech armor that is always fucking up in some hilarious way. Who knows maybe Natalie Portman will turn into some mega bitch with the hammer since it doesn't exist anymore so who knows how she even gets it and will be part of it too. Im fine with all of that because its different enough other then hey its avengers but just different looking people. Its avengers that are all dicks.

Valderen · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
Its avengers that are all dicks.

So The Seven from The Boys?

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Valderen said:
So The Seven from The Boys?

I'd be down, they are giving Deadpool a R rated movie they could go that route or a tv show like Doom Patrol or the Boys, since they are characters they are not trying to sell toys of anyways as far as I can tell I doubt Disney would care.

Chukzombi · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
It plays into their philosophy on bringing back dead characters based on actors contracts. You are 100% correct they could bring anyone back at any time, and they even introduced the means to do it, but Evans, RDJ and ScarJo were just done playing the characters. So you can recast or move on, and I think since they are treating this as a giant storyline spanning decades they are moving on. Gamora was bright back because she has interest in continuing and they had a way to make it work into the movie.

It comes down to what you want in these movies, if you are fine recasting they could have Iron Man forever with zero stakes (for as much stakes as these movies ever have), or you could have a guy play him for more then a decade, have everyone love the character and actor and when he sacrifices himself its a super powerful sad scene because you wont see him again. He wont be recast 2 years later played by someone who cannot possibly live up to it, and have nerds constantly arguing who is the better Tony Stark.

I will agree having Winter Soldier become CA would have been great, but Sebastian Stan might not want to do this for as long, and this gives the opportunity to lose his shit and beat the fuck out of Captain America which is always fun.

i guess i am just mad that they didnt think out a good way of replacing them with new people we cared about. i do care about Bucky, his friendship with Cap was established over ten years and it was an organic progression that he would take over for his best friend.

Tony had that to a smaller degree with Peter. but Spidey is still Spidey and he does his own thing. so who else? Pepper? does Pepper give a fuck about any of this? she isnt even a genius. she was just a chick getting railed by Tony on the regular and that doesnt give her time travel levels of intellect . Banner? Banner was turned into a nutless faggot and he still isnt on Stark's level. they never introduced anyone who is in Tony's league. but people still want RDJ doing his thing. he pretty much was the entire lynchpin of the MCU and if i was in charge of Marvel, i would have two money dump trucks backed up to his house begging him to do more films. they could have Spidey rescue his doppelganger ass in the multiverse and everyone would fall over themselves with happiness.

Natasha was getting old and her window of hotness was closing down. she could have still stuck around for a few years and helped establish her sister as a possible replacement. instead we get, heres the new BW. consume more product. yeah, i'm not sick of cutie Johannsen yet, keep her around. let me have my old man crush for a while longer.

TLDR there was no satisfactory passing of the guard in Endgame and all these new people are being thrown at us without a decent explanation.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Chukzombi said:
TLDR there was no satisfactory passing of the guard in Endgame and all these new people are being thrown at us without a decent explanation.

100% agree

Muurloen · Aug 26, 2021

Chukzombi said:
TLDR there was no satisfactory passing of the guard in Endgame and all these new people are being thrown at us without a decent explanation.

The replacement actors for the departed heroes are going to be variants. Just as easy as that.

Gavinmad · Aug 26, 2021

Juvarisx said:
I'd be down, they are giving Deadpool a R rated movie they could go that route or a tv show like Doom Patrol or the Boys, since they are characters they are not trying to sell toys of anyways as far as I can tell I doubt Disney would care.

don't get too excited about Deadpool 3. Feige shit-canned the two dudes who wrote Deadpool 1 and 2 to replace them with the Molyneux sisters, two literal nobodies who wrote a few episodes of Bob's Burgers.

Juvarisx · Aug 26, 2021

Muurloen said:
The replacement actors for the departed heroes are going to be variants. Just as easy as that.

They could very simply do that but it still runs into the same issue. I guarantee some exec at Disney said hey lets just do it that way but it runs into the issue of nothing being at stake. Infinity War isn't my favorite team up movie because of baysplosians or anything its my fav because Thanos is a badass and you know what was at stake if he won (and best of all he did). Balancing anything mattering with that fact Doctor Strange can just Rich Sanchez the team to a new dimension its going to be hell for the writers especially when the audience catches on to how the multiverse works. There is no 2-3 arbitrary times like Rick and Morty in the MCU multiverse.

Maybe No Way Home will alleviate my fears or throw a twist in since Toby and Andrew Garfield are rumored to be in it.

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