MMA Thread

The weight cutting is always going to be apart of the sport when there is incentive to do so.

Jozu said:

The weight cutting is always going to be apart of the sport when there is incentive to do so.

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Wrestling and other MMA organizations have done a lot of work on this.

UFC lags behind bigly on modern weight cutting. Despite all the modern advances in nutrition and performance institute offering free guidance on how to cut the most weight, people are struggling. It's not good for the product, it's not good for fans, it's not healthy for the fighters.

Wonderboy has intense pressure, against his own interests, to accept this fight. If he beats a beefed-up Till, he stays on the track he's on which is cleaning out the division so the champ can cherry pick his opponent. If he doesn't accept the fight, UFC blackballs him. If he loses against a dude who shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place, there will be no asterisk in his record – he lost and he'll tumble in the rankings, facing an uphill battle to get back.

188 before leaving for the arena still gives Till a lot of time. More than anything it means he and his team will be wasting mental energy on making sure he steps on that scale at 187.9 instead of preparing for the fight.

Does anyone have a good link for tonight? Reddit mma streams was culled by Nazi mods there.

Goatface said:

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#MeToo entering the professional fighting scene now!

Fight is on, Till weighed in at 187.3 at 1 pm. For comparison Thompson checked his weight about an hour ago also, 185.2

Fatty fat chick from Liverpool who also missed weight just got choked out cold lol

Steven fucked on a decision yet again.

I was rooting for Thompson but honestly I can't hate on the decision. Everything was so close it was going to come down to the smallest details on who was winning each round. Only thing that wasn't close was octagon control and I don't think anybody can argue Till was the more imposing figure. Sucks for WB but he took a gamble taking this fight and it didn't pay off for him unfortunately.

Shano said:

I was rooting for Thompson but honestly I can't hate on the decision. Everything was so close it was going to come down to the smallest details on who was winning each round. Only thing that wasn't close was octagon control and I don't think anybody can argue Till was the more imposing figure. Sucks for WB but he took a gamble taking this fight and it didn't pay off for him unfortunately.

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While I'd say you're correct on control, it looked like WB landed a shitload more strikes. And strikes are supposed to be weighed more heavily.

While it's obvious WB lost the 5th, I don't think there's another round you can give Till, except maybe the 4th. Did you see the scorecards? 49-46 is a fucking joke.

Control is only judged when damage is equal.

Then again, most judges have never studied any martial art and many struggle to read the rules in the first place.

I disagree with the decision and I think it sucks for everyone. Till's failed to make weight twice now? He should move up, but since he beat the #1 he'll be allowed to stay in the division and might be one fight away from Woodley. Wonderboy needs to find a way to be more aggressive and losing to the #8 (even an overweight one) sucks, maybe he was injured (8 weeks ago couldn't make a fist?) but there's no asterisk next to this loss, good news for him is his next title shot was 3-4 fights away regardless.

Wonderboy's done a lot to improve his game. Tonight was not impressive for him.

Fedor said:

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Summed up the whole fight lol

Kirun said:

While I'd say you're correct on control, it looked like WB landed a shitload more strikes. And strikes are supposed to be weighed more heavily.

While it's obvious WB lost the 5th, I don't think there's another round you can give Till, except maybe the 4th. Did you see the scorecards? 49-46 is a fucking joke.

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Yeah man at the end I had it scored for Wonderboy, but I think at the start of round 3 (I think?) it showed strikes landed 40 to 37 or something along those lines with Thompson slightly outlanding Till. So it was pretty close, that's why I said I can't hate on the decision, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Octagon control is only reason I could see judges giving it to Till, but Big John is the man, so if he disagrees with it that makes me feel better scoring it for WB lol

Shano said:

Yeah man at the end I had it scored for Wonderboy, but I think at the start of round 3 (I think?) it showed strikes landed 40 to 37 or something along those lines with Thompson slightly outlanding Till. So it was pretty close, that's why I said I can't hate on the decision, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Octagon control is only reason I could see judges giving it to Till, but Big John is the man, so if he disagrees with it that makes me feel better scoring it for WB lol

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You're falling into this trap that number of strikes landed overall matters.

Two main points:

1) Each round is judged independently. If Fighter A outstrikes a guy 400-0 in round one and then is outstruck 200-0 in rounds two through five, Fighter B probably wins 49-46 (if all rounds are 10-9) despite a 400-200 strikes landed disadvantage.

2) Strikes itself doesn't matter. What counts is damage. In other words, you don't score points for taking actions; you win a round based on how you created chances to put the other fighter out. Just like how a fighter who remains in dominant mount for 90% of a round doesn't matter – what counts is that fighter getting in good chokes to nearly score a submission or landing big blows that nearly knock out the other dude.

Then again, how the rules are written (and are they following old rules or new rules?) and how the judges score aren't the same thing. Sometimes judges don't have good angles, they make mistakes, or they aren't knowledgeable about MMA.

Yeah I know that, I was just going off what was shown while watching (I still haven't looked at strikes round by round) and using it as example of how close strikes were.

So for argument sake and since we all saw the fight and we know 1 fighter wasn't landing vastly more than the other we can just say WB landed 20 in round 1 and 20 in round 2, with Till being 19 and 18. I don't think that would really be enough to sway judges, so obviously they'll look at octagon control and like you said damage, in which case Till clearly won. WB actually had some marks on his face and his leg was starting to look pretty battered so Till was definitely landing the harder shots.

Honestly though I think we are looking into this harder than the judges did and they're more than likely corrupt / biased af. All 3 judges were UK Judges so it's really no surprise Till won considering how close everything was.

They don't look at octagon control and damage after knowing the number of strikes are close. The judges never see numbers of strikes landed, it doesn't enter their minds.

Cuts and bruises aren't "damage" but it's hard for humans in the moment to disregard them.

Judging in sport is difficult, but the rules are clear: The only thing that matters in judging any given round is effective striking/grappling. To focus on striking, it's about the impact or damage of legal strikes landed by a contestant solely based on the results of such legal strikes. The number of blows doesn't matter; the judges never see an unofficial number because it isn't a criteria for scoring. For striking, you're asking the question: which fighter hurt the other fighter more?

If and only if that is 100% equal, you look at other criteria. The next question is: which of the two fighters was more aggressive? If and only if Effective Aggressiveness is 100% equal, do judges evaluate Control.

Corruption and bias happen, but I never want to sling mud on someone's character and reputation in a fight where Wonderboy didn't boldly make his claim to victory. Pacquiao losing 117-111 last year was egregious; this isn't in the same ballpark. IMO 49-46 is stupid and seeing that on two score cards is lame, but in six months no one will remember this as a corrupt or biased decision.

Jason Knight upset at the judges for not knowing the rules for his fight, too.