MMORPGS, what do you miss?
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What I miss is mostly in my head:
- The ability to spend tens of hours a week immersed into an MMO without feeling guilty to my RL responsibilities (I played EverQuest in my college years, those were the glory years)
- The feeling of entering a fresh, new world when playing a new game, entering a new zone, whatever
- Being able to withstand hardships (5 hour corpse runs, 48 hour camps, etc) which allowed the involved people to really bond. When playing a MMO now, I just want my ubah gear right away with no roadblocks.
I really wish I could feel the same way about an mmo like I did ~10 years ago, but nah not gonna happen.
Apart from that, the whole MMO scene has grown bigger. There are not many games left where you have a small, tight-knit community. I remember in EQ, if you fucked up badly, the whole server knew your name and you'd be on the shitlist. Better delete that char and reroll son.
Nowadays, everyone is just a nameless face in the crowd, only interested in his/her personal gain. Fuck the rest.
- The ability to spend tens of hours a week immersed into an MMO without feeling guilty to my RL responsibilities (I played EverQuest in my college years, those were the glory years)
- The feeling of entering a fresh, new world when playing a new game, entering a new zone, whatever
- Being able to withstand hardships (5 hour corpse runs, 48 hour camps, etc) which allowed the involved people to really bond. When playing a MMO now, I just want my ubah gear right away with no roadblocks.
I really wish I could feel the same way about an mmo like I did ~10 years ago, but nah not gonna happen.
Apart from that, the whole MMO scene has grown bigger. There are not many games left where you have a small, tight-knit community. I remember in EQ, if you fucked up badly, the whole server knew your name and you'd be on the shitlist. Better delete that char and reroll son.
Nowadays, everyone is just a nameless face in the crowd, only interested in his/her personal gain. Fuck the rest.
Aaron
Goonsquad Officer
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In this thread: a bunch of guys wishing for a Delorian to take them 10 years back to a time when they still lived with their mom, didn't have a job or a family and could spend 12+ hours a day grouped with similar people with an almost total lack of RL responsibilities, farming content for games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work.
I miss those days too!
I miss those days too!
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
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The two of my real life friends, including myself had a job back in 1999. My two friends were married with children.In this thread: a bunch of guys wishing for a Delorian to take them 10 years back to a time when they still lived with their mom, didn't have a job or a family and could spend 12+ hours a day grouped with similar people with an almost total lack of RL responsibilities, farming content for games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work.
I miss those days too!
I don't know about most of the neckbeards on these forums but I know I miss specific and obvious game mechanics and philosophies that are no longer adopted in any game on the market now. I've got tired of repeated some of the mechanics that made older games better.
I don't know about your teenage life but it has nothing to do with the freedom those games gave us. Just because you're married doesn't mean you can only play WoW-like games. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't spend 2 hours a day in a game, and that's the "average" amount of time I've spent on a game like EQ. Sometimes I don't log in at all during the day while sometimes I stay for 4 hours straight. On weekends sometimes I do an 8 hours session.
I spend at least 2 hours a day playing random games. I honestly don't see the link between giving us freedom with a harsher more immersed world and "the time at hand". There's no link between "I ain't got time for dat" and making a game that suits such a niche market. I understand you don't like that kind of games; who said I want you to. But you have to understand there's a market for this and "rose colored glasses" argument is flawed.
I, and many others, need a game which is about Exploring, Cooperation with others and Delving in a world. I want a world that forces you to team up with others. I want a better and improved economy system. I want the ability to kill anything and deal with the consequences. I don't want fetch quests (and hence I don't need a GPS map) I want to go in a huge dungeon kicking a door after another (non-instnaced) until I reach floor 12, with my group, meeting other adventurers (some might need help, others buffs us and leave). I want a slower combat pace; no more "action" oriented bullshit (keep that to where it belongs) and definitely no more whack-a-mole kind of "play the UI" game. Combat should be simple, yet engaging, no need for a trivial "attack rotation".
I want death to be harsh enough to fear it. I don't want to follow "my story" because it isn't my story... it's the character's story (which is everyone else's story). I want, instead, do MY story... my own adventure... alone or with other people. Interdependence skills (whether class specific or crafting specific).
Yea I have no idea what your talking about. Pretty much my entire guild was comprised of professionals. Lawyers, accountants, a PA, a court reporter, a few game developers etc.... I was one of the few whodidn'thave a college degree. 80% worked 8-5, would raid until 2am, then get up and do it all over again. Not sure what guild you were in or what server you played on but your about as far away from defining the player base as it gets.In this thread: a bunch of guys wishing for a Delorian to take them 10 years back to a time when they still lived with their mom, didn't have a job or a family and could spend 12+ hours a day grouped with similar people with an almost total lack of RL responsibilities, farming content for games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work.
I miss those days too!
Aaron
Goonsquad Officer
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I wasn't making a quib at EQ specifically, as I never played it, though I have read nostalgia threads posted here and on FoH for the past 5 years. I also wasn't belittling anyone, as my last line specifies that I, too, miss the olden days when MMOs weren't just a clone of a clone of a clone, all (mostly) catering to the same audience.
Perhaps I should explain a bit more by what I meant when I wrote "...games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work."
Many of the game mechanics that are all but extinct now, such as meaningful death (xp setback, loot loss, etc.), very rare world bosses, meaningful levelling (i.e. not race to max), non-instantaneous world travel... the list goes on, you know what I mean, have all gone the way of the dodo because they were put in these first gen games at a time when the dev's had no idea what would work and what would not work (since they were pioneering a new genre). In the end these were mostly (if not all) phased out as the mass of gamers do not like them (unlike most of the posters on this forum). The sad fact is (and the point of this whole thread, right?) is that these things most likely will never be coming back, unless someone makes a very, very, niche market MMO with a small but dedicated population. Now, that could happen, but the chances of it are small.
As for those complaining about the first part of my post, well, guess I didn't do a good job of sarcasm. Sorry if I rustled some Jimmies. Back when I was starting out in this genre over 10 years ago now I was at University and I would play 6+ hours a day week days and 12+ on weekends. Same was true of those I knew who played - who were practically all in school too. One by one they dropped out of the MMO market, or drastically cut their times to maybe 1-2 hours a few nights a week and maybe 2-3 hours on weekends due to work/family. Those of you who can juggle work+family+sleep+lots of MMO time, well shit you're lucky I guess!
Oh, and if someone does actually make a Delorian with the time set to about the year 2000 then give me a call, I'll hop right in!
Perhaps I should explain a bit more by what I meant when I wrote "...games that were so new the devs were still blindly feeling their way with what worked and what didn't work."
Many of the game mechanics that are all but extinct now, such as meaningful death (xp setback, loot loss, etc.), very rare world bosses, meaningful levelling (i.e. not race to max), non-instantaneous world travel... the list goes on, you know what I mean, have all gone the way of the dodo because they were put in these first gen games at a time when the dev's had no idea what would work and what would not work (since they were pioneering a new genre). In the end these were mostly (if not all) phased out as the mass of gamers do not like them (unlike most of the posters on this forum). The sad fact is (and the point of this whole thread, right?) is that these things most likely will never be coming back, unless someone makes a very, very, niche market MMO with a small but dedicated population. Now, that could happen, but the chances of it are small.
As for those complaining about the first part of my post, well, guess I didn't do a good job of sarcasm. Sorry if I rustled some Jimmies. Back when I was starting out in this genre over 10 years ago now I was at University and I would play 6+ hours a day week days and 12+ on weekends. Same was true of those I knew who played - who were practically all in school too. One by one they dropped out of the MMO market, or drastically cut their times to maybe 1-2 hours a few nights a week and maybe 2-3 hours on weekends due to work/family. Those of you who can juggle work+family+sleep+lots of MMO time, well shit you're lucky I guess!
Oh, and if someone does actually make a Delorian with the time set to about the year 2000 then give me a call, I'll hop right in!
I just miss progression and solid controls. These days it seems every MMORPG is a choice between a good engine or endgame content, never both. I really, truly cannot comprehend what it is that makes developers refuse to create a game that has both. Titles like GW2 and Neverwinter had good engines with modern controls and interesting mechanics, but they forgot to actually include a reason to play for more than two weeks. Then you have shit like FFXIV with the promise of raiding but mechanics that are ten years old and controls that feel like an alpha test. There have been quite a lot of MMORPGs that have had everything except one of these two crucial elements, and it's just such a waste. So many have been so close but have seemed to lack the frankly very basic and trivial knowledge to include these key elements in their games. Rift was near the mark but extremely grindy and Trion inexplicably moved all their developers to a different project right after release, causing the game to be on life support from the start.
I mean, think of what GW2 could have become if there had been a competitive, engaging raid scene. Instead they chose not to have it, and the result is a forgettable game that only gets mentioned in historical context even just a year after its release. They're games with real potential and they all either fail right away or just fade into obscurity after the launch hype dies down. The same will happen with FFXIV, in six months it'll linger right next to GW2 and other such games that didn't quite suffer a disastrous failure but just became nothing with less than 100k people who play or care about it. I expect the same will happen with Wildstar and ESO as they have no endgame, and then some smaller studio will try to develop an MMORPG with endgame content but neglect to make the mechanics tolerable. It's like goddamn clockwork. Why the fuck has nobody managed to get both right since WoW? Is it really that difficult?
FFXIV proved that there's a genuine demand for a traditional MMORPG that doesn't try to reinvent the genre, but it has to have the basics in order or people won't play it. If the controls are shit and the skills and class mechanics belong in the DAoC era, you're not fucking getting anywhere in 2013. I just hope it has at least served to inform more competent developers that there is a market for a new MMORPG that isn't groundbreaking and innovative but simply has the features that make people care: mechanical depth and raid content you can progress through with your guild and get some recognition for if you do it well. When you get right down to it, these two things were the key to WoW's success -- and Everquest's, for its time. For an industry that notoriously tries to piggyback on its more succesful predecessors, it's uncanny how they refuse to actually copy the right things.
I mean, think of what GW2 could have become if there had been a competitive, engaging raid scene. Instead they chose not to have it, and the result is a forgettable game that only gets mentioned in historical context even just a year after its release. They're games with real potential and they all either fail right away or just fade into obscurity after the launch hype dies down. The same will happen with FFXIV, in six months it'll linger right next to GW2 and other such games that didn't quite suffer a disastrous failure but just became nothing with less than 100k people who play or care about it. I expect the same will happen with Wildstar and ESO as they have no endgame, and then some smaller studio will try to develop an MMORPG with endgame content but neglect to make the mechanics tolerable. It's like goddamn clockwork. Why the fuck has nobody managed to get both right since WoW? Is it really that difficult?
FFXIV proved that there's a genuine demand for a traditional MMORPG that doesn't try to reinvent the genre, but it has to have the basics in order or people won't play it. If the controls are shit and the skills and class mechanics belong in the DAoC era, you're not fucking getting anywhere in 2013. I just hope it has at least served to inform more competent developers that there is a market for a new MMORPG that isn't groundbreaking and innovative but simply has the features that make people care: mechanical depth and raid content you can progress through with your guild and get some recognition for if you do it well. When you get right down to it, these two things were the key to WoW's success -- and Everquest's, for its time. For an industry that notoriously tries to piggyback on its more succesful predecessors, it's uncanny how they refuse to actually copy the right things.
Jait
Molten Core Raider
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Being surprised. Genuinely surprised. It's the internets fault, not MMO's. But I remember recently playing a MMO where I thought a harvesting node was glowing or on fire. I could have stopped turned around and checked, but my brain told me if there was anything special about it I would have heard already.
There's nothing left to discover. Run down a hall or explore a zone in EQ1, and you looked in every nook and cranny. Nowadays, everything is online 10 days before beta ends and developers spend absolutely no time trying to create virgin experiences for gamers as they're completely beholden to their parent companies and making a profit.
Someday there will be a game where the Devs actually enforce NDA's and create a system and a game where everything is so dynamic that nothing other than maps/skills will be spoilers. Hopefully.
There's nothing left to discover. Run down a hall or explore a zone in EQ1, and you looked in every nook and cranny. Nowadays, everything is online 10 days before beta ends and developers spend absolutely no time trying to create virgin experiences for gamers as they're completely beholden to their parent companies and making a profit.
Someday there will be a game where the Devs actually enforce NDA's and create a system and a game where everything is so dynamic that nothing other than maps/skills will be spoilers. Hopefully.
I'll sum my most missed with this,
Overall game mechanics , accidental or not, that allow Fansy the Bard to happen, horrifying and delighting many a player.
Overall game mechanics , accidental or not, that allow Fansy the Bard to happen, horrifying and delighting many a player.