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Brahma

Brahma

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Pyros said:
I mean if it's just the def down you can use 3points in def down immunity or the charm, but I'm not sure it's that. Maybe I'll try it out next time I fight Jho but unlike vanilla where I had to fight him several times to get a bunch of the weapons, in IB his weapons are just pretty much all shit since negative affinity is a much bigger issue now with max might being shit.

Atm I'm mostly still trying to get a gold rathian investigation, I've only gotten her+another monster, meanwhile I have like 9 silver rathalos investigations, keep getting these instead. I've also hit forest 7 after farming coral 7 a bunch and dropping it, and once I got enough scarred garuga items and another Kushala kill I'll drop it and maybe get Rotten Vale back to 7 for temp Brute Tigrex and Vaal and then just go back to Coral for Namielle(I have like 70materials and 5weapons augmented already but eh). It surprisingly isn't that long to level these guiding lands shit, people made it sound like it was horrible but all I do is just kill monsters, no fancy trap spamming shit or whatever but just killed like 3.5monsters and get a level so it goes pretty quickly especially when luring low tier shit, they give the same progress but you can kill Jagras/Girros/Kulu/Tzitzi in like 3-5mins just mashing buttons.
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Pyros Pyros what platform you on?
 
Brahma

Brahma

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Janx Janx do I need to come resuscitate you brosef?

giphy.gif
 
Brahma

Brahma

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I'm going to assume I need to totally max out 2 grinding lands zones to seven before working on a 3rd?
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Brahma said:
I'm going to assume I need to totally max out 2 grinding lands zones to seven before working on a 3rd?
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Its set up so you cant have them all at 7 at once. Which is why you see people with HR 900 and shit with 3 at 7 and 3 at 1.
 
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Pyros

Pyros

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Brahma said:
Gotcha. Got two on 7. Guess I will work on that third.
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You can only have 2 atm, the amount expands when they add more areas but on PC for now it's 19 total or so I hear(so 7/7/4/1). That's why I'm switching which I have at 7 to farm the monsters. It doesn't take too long to switch so it's not a big problem and once you have the materials you can use the melder to trade stuff you have for stuff you don't.
 
A

a_skeleton_00

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I think Ice CB or any super high element is now META for a lot of the tougher mons, although impact is still beastmode.

Can't wait until PC and PS4 are parallel in April.
 
Namon

Namon

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a_skeleton_00 said:
I think Ice CB or any super high element is now META for a lot of the tougher mons, although impact is still beastmode.

Can't wait until PC and PS4 are parallel in April.
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I've seen that and I like it. I really would rather toss on a bunch of x elemental skills to max it out and fight a monster with x element CB than raw. I'm not an SAED guy ... at all. Yeah it's cool if it lands... but that's a huge IF for me. The savage axe addition is absolutely amazing and I only use SAED's if I need to damage it RIGHT now before he moves. But then I go to all these min maxer videos (who seem to way over think things to me) and they still insist impact with raw is the only way to go. Well considering like one or two weapons of what? 20? have that it seems like the game isn't exactly designed just for that. At least to me it is.
 
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TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Namon said:
Well I came back to this while waiting for Nioh 2 but I am on PS4. I finally powered my way through HR and beat vanilla game. Started the expansion proper last night and I have the Snow guy that looks like the water guy and a rhino had sex. I have his gear set built save the boots. So far so good... but good god damn the weapon trees are just insane to look at right now. There are so many options it's impossible to keep up with what is what. I may go back and farm up the Diablos Tree (CB here) because OMG Raw... but with the negative affinity I'm not sure I see the trade off here if I have to devote a shitload of my skills just to make it not suck on that front. But everyone says element is shit, but good lord, pretty much all of it is some kind of element or effect it seems. I always liked element on CB because it seemed to kill shit faster if the monster was weak to it. It is insane how the basic bitch armor from the first guy blows anything from HR away... even top end guys.
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I'm on PS4 not sure you added me (PSN: TJTek).

Elements are really strong now. Ailments like poison are also strong. Deep Schnegel CB seems to be really really good. So having an element set for each type is really good for CB/DB/Bow/SnS.

The Guild Palace weapons are REALLY good. Do the event quest 50 shades of white to craft them. Then Arena quest 6 to upgrade them to Item Rarity 12.

The event quests are pretty quick this time around. I got the Guild Palace SnS, Greatsword, and Hammer. All of which look super badass.
 
Namon

Namon

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TJT said:
I'm on PS4 not sure you added me (PSN: TJTek).

Elements are really strong now. Ailments like poison are also strong. Deep Schnegel CB seems to be really really good. So having an element set for each type is really good for CB/DB/Bow/SnS.

The Guild Palace weapons are REALLY good. Do the event quest 50 shades of white to craft them. Then Arena quest 6 to upgrade them to Item Rarity 12.
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I just might do that... i'm DaddyO295.

But legit none of that means anything to me yet. But as I said I'm one monster into Iceborne so I will eventually. I'm afraid to play multiplayer because I'm not sure how awful I truly am at this game.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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CAn't be more awful than a lot of players. Multiplayer away. I do SOS stuff a lot to get quests when I am not just doing investigations or arena.
 
Springbok

Springbok

Karen
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Well some of the later Iceborne monsters will prove your suspicions about how adept you are - Barioth was annoying AF, Velk, Shara, Brute Tig. I need to grind like crazy this weekend to get Silver Rath unlocked on pc
 
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Pyros

Pyros

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Namon said:
I've seen that and I like it. I really would rather toss on a bunch of x elemental skills to max it out and fight a monster with x element CB than raw. I'm not an SAED guy ... at all. Yeah it's cool if it lands... but that's a huge IF for me. The savage axe addition is absolutely amazing and I only use SAED's if I need to damage it RIGHT now before he moves. But then I go to all these min maxer videos (who seem to way over think things to me) and they still insist impact with raw is the only way to go. Well considering like one or two weapons of what? 20? have that it seems like the game isn't exactly designed just for that. At least to me it is.
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While there's definitely some point in doing elemental builds, a lot of elemental builds don't actually benefit from stacking the elemental damage skill or even running critical element. Basically the damage from a high raw weapon with side elemental is better than a pure elemental weapon with all elemental buffs. Depends on the weapon of course but most stuff other than Bow and DB seem to work that way. Had to do with motion values affecting raw but not elem or whatever and most weapons being too reliant on raw.

I don't know about CB though so can't say for that. But being a shield based weapon, it seems like it'd favor raw+elem rather than full elem setup, because you can use offensive guard to buff your raw by 15%(which is a crazy amount when you compare to other stuff) and as long as you're using guard point efficiently you can keep it up quite a lot.
 
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Namon

Namon

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Pyros said:
While there's definitely some point in doing elemental builds, a lot of elemental builds don't actually benefit from stacking the elemental damage skill or even running critical element. Basically the damage from a high raw weapon with side elemental is better than a pure elemental weapon with all elemental buffs. Depends on the weapon of course but most stuff other than Bow and DB seem to work that way. Had to do with motion values affecting raw but not elem or whatever and most weapons being too reliant on raw.

I don't know about CB though so can't say for that. But being a shield based weapon, it seems like it'd favor raw+elem rather than full elem setup, because you can use offensive guard to buff your raw by 15%(which is a crazy amount when you compare to other stuff) and as long as you're using guard point efficiently you can keep it up quite a lot.
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Gotta open with that I'm not arguing with what you said. This is more to make sure I understand lol

Ok so I have Ice from Legiana, Water for Jurytodos, etc. So Legiana's Weapon is like 650 damage and a few lines below on the stat sheet, it says Ice 270 or some such. The 650 is raw and it hits for whatever the fucked up monster hunter math ends up making it. I also know element is like the other status stuff where it's not doing that per swing , but more it's a build up and explodes for that eventually. But just out in the field over the 330 hours I've played, going up against say Odogaran, who I've killed around 40 times... I just have always seemed to kill him faster with my ice CB versus say Jaagras.... So my point is... when you say go for raw you just mean the highest possible raw damage up top right? Like if I do want to roll ice, don't mess with buffing elemental damage as it's a waste but it's still ok to roll the highest raw damaging ice weapon? As long as I don't say woo an ice weapon that hits for 200 less than everything else!! But if it's slightly lower, I'm still ok right?
 
Janx

Janx

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Namon said:
Gotta open with that I'm not arguing with what you said. This is more to make sure I understand lol

Ok so I have Ice from Legiana, Water for Jurytodos, etc. So Legiana's Weapon is like 650 damage and a few lines below on the stat sheet, it says Ice 270 or some such. The 650 is raw and it hits for whatever the fucked up monster hunter math ends up making it. I also know element is like the other status stuff where it's not doing that per swing , but more it's a build up and explodes for that eventually. But just out in the field over the 330 hours I've played, going up against say Odogaran, who I've killed around 40 times... I just have always seemed to kill him faster with my ice CB versus say Jaagras.... So my point is... when you say go for raw you just mean the highest possible raw damage up top right? Like if I do want to roll ice, don't mess with buffing elemental damage as it's a waste but it's still ok to roll the highest raw damaging ice weapon? As long as I don't say woo an ice weapon that hits for 200 less than everything else!! But if it's slightly lower, I'm still ok right?
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Pretty sure elemental tacks on a bit of damage to each attack and doesnt build like status.
 
Namon

Namon

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Janx said:
Pretty sure elemental tacks on a bit of damage to each attack and doesnt build like status.
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That would be awesome and I hope you are right... I mean the graphic for whatever element I'm rocking seems to "splash" whenever I hit with it so it wouldn't surprise me but that was the only thing I could think of that made element suck versus just raw/impact from my pleb eyes.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Namon said:
That would be awesome and I hope you are right... I mean the graphic for whatever element I'm rocking seems to "splash" whenever I hit with it so it wouldn't surprise me but that was the only thing I could think of that made element suck versus just raw/impact from my pleb eyes.
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Well the math is complicated but some people bother doing it and generally high raw+some element with no element support skills beats out low raw+high element weapons with true crit element(silver rathalos 4pc) or normal crit element(2pc) with 5/5 element skill. That said it does depend on the weapon type and the actual weapons so it's not always true. On Dual Blades you definitely want that element build shit, same on Bow, but others are more questionable.

Element always hits, it isn't like status, but it adds a static value per hit, which isn't affected by crit(unless you have crit element but that forces you into a less optimal build), while raw is affected by crit naturally as well as % buffs like food(iirc), HH buff, Offensive Guard, the non elem skill(nerfed to 5% though in IB) and so on. Also it depends heavily on the skills your weapon tends to spam and how they work in terms of motion value(the multiplier to raw that is applied to any given attack, based on various factors like speed and reach). Motion value affects raw but not elemental iirc.

For example back in vanilla Sword and Shield favored elemental because the bread and butter was the circle fast combo which was small hits with low motion value and high speed, so raw did little but elem which was flat damage per hit did a lot. Raw was only if you spammed the shield combo, which was good but only if you were good at the game since aiming it and timing it was pretty challenging. In IB however, the addition of Perfect Rush changed that because it's basically the best damage option by a large margin and it favors raw heavily due to high motion value AND a multiplier to raw if you get the bonus(timing bonus similar to greatsword charging).

Another example is Lance. Lance is a lot of quick small pokes with so so motion value, so it should favor elemental, however Lance requires a shit ton of skills to function so fitting in elemental damage options is actually hard. On top of that, Offensive Guard buffs Raw only and by a substantial amount. Finally because someone at Capcom might be retarded Lance has a damage penalty on elemental(I believe fast weapons all have it, DB and Bow too). As a result, while lance does use elemental lances for optimal damage, they're basically the lances that have the least amount of elemental and highest raw(velkhana and rathalos, with namielle being very questionable and losing to velkhana on some matchups even with water having better damage and lightning literally having no good option, until Safi obviously).

Now this is meta optimizing shit and for the most part the differences aren't going to be that big so if you fancy doing an elemental build you can definitely do it. But it's not quite as simple as it looks, you can't just equip an elemental weapon of the right element and necessarily do better than equipping a raw weapon, even with elementless being nerfed. And that doesn't even go into Rathian weapons having poisons yet also having some of the highest raw, which is some retarded balancing. Also I think once Safi weapons come into play it becomes easier to build elemental so not sure how that turns out.

So far the only elemental weapons I've made are lances, but I often don't bother using them because they require Handicraft and I don't have enough of the really rare 4decos to make a super solid build and it gets annoying trying to fit offensive guard, handicraft and guard 5 on top of all the usual stuff. Meanwhile I can just use the Nergi weapon as a raw stick with free dragon on top and drop handicraft entirely, which gives me a lot of room for other stuff like Guard Up, Fortify and Health Boost 3. I'm not a speed runner so I like having utility shit for when I inevitably fuck up.
 
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Namon

Namon

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Pyros said:
Well the math is complicated but some people bother doing it and generally high raw+some element with no element support skills beats out low raw+high element weapons with true crit element(silver rathalos 4pc) or normal crit element(2pc) with 5/5 element skill. That said it does depend on the weapon type and the actual weapons so it's not always true. On Dual Blades you definitely want that element build shit, same on Bow, but others are more questionable.

Element always hits, it isn't like status, but it adds a static value per hit, which isn't affected by crit(unless you have crit element but that forces you into a less optimal build), while raw is affected by crit naturally as well as % buffs like food(iirc), HH buff, Offensive Guard, the non elem skill(nerfed to 5% though in IB) and so on. Also it depends heavily on the skills your weapon tends to spam and how they work in terms of motion value(the multiplier to raw that is applied to any given attack, based on various factors like speed and reach). Motion value affects raw but not elemental iirc.

For example back in vanilla Sword and Shield favored elemental because the bread and butter was the circle fast combo which was small hits with low motion value and high speed, so raw did little but elem which was flat damage per hit did a lot. Raw was only if you spammed the shield combo, which was good but only if you were good at the game since aiming it and timing it was pretty challenging. In IB however, the addition of Perfect Rush changed that because it's basically the best damage option by a large margin and it favors raw heavily due to high motion value AND a multiplier to raw if you get the bonus(timing bonus similar to greatsword charging).

Another example is Lance. Lance is a lot of quick small pokes with so so motion value, so it should favor elemental, however Lance requires a shit ton of skills to function so fitting in elemental damage options is actually hard. On top of that, Offensive Guard buffs Raw only and by a substantial amount. Finally because someone at Capcom might be retarded Lance has a damage penalty on elemental(I believe fast weapons all have it, DB and Bow too). As a result, while lance does use elemental lances for optimal damage, they're basically the lances that have the least amount of elemental and highest raw(velkhana and rathalos, with namielle being very questionable and losing to velkhana on some matchups even with water having better damage and lightning literally having no good option, until Safi obviously).

Now this is meta optimizing shit and for the most part the differences aren't going to be that big so if you fancy doing an elemental build you can definitely do it. But it's not quite as simple as it looks, you can't just equip an elemental weapon of the right element and necessarily do better than equipping a raw weapon, even with elementless being nerfed. And that doesn't even go into Rathian weapons having poisons yet also having some of the highest raw, which is some retarded balancing. Also I think once Safi weapons come into play it becomes easier to build elemental so not sure how that turns out.

So far the only elemental weapons I've made are lances, but I often don't bother using them because they require Handicraft and I don't have enough of the really rare 4decos to make a super solid build and it gets annoying trying to fit offensive guard, handicraft and guard 5 on top of all the usual stuff. Meanwhile I can just use the Nergi weapon as a raw stick with free dragon on top and drop handicraft entirely, which gives me a lot of room for other stuff like Guard Up, Fortify and Health Boost 3. I'm not a speed runner so I like having utility shit for when I inevitably fuck up.
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And there is my biggest question... how in the world with all the hidden math that makes Everquest look detailed on its info, did they come up with MV in the first place. I mean yeah numbers pop up but there are no actual damage logs or anything like that so I'm curious how they are able to accurately break that down to the nth degree like that. I guess recording gameplay and just literally freezing it and counting actual numbers you see etc. It just seems like a shaky foundation to build that much exact math on. When I say that I'm thinking of these dudes Jinx and Tuna who legit have spreadsheets on this shit. It blows my mind how they are able to get that granular on a game that almost seems to actively prevent the actual real picture from being painted here.
 
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