Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Still a dodge.
Why is declaring what class you played primarily in EQ a problem? I mean, I've demonized several classes because they were "and wait for other people to do stuff", but given your knowledge you aren't one of those. What class did you play in everquest that gives you this superiority complex when it comes to MMOs? It's a small thing - just enlighten us.
I think I've hit a nerve. You played a mostly AFK class for all of "classic" EQ, and are afraid to mention it. It's ok buddy; we understand. Almost every person who clamors for a "hardcore mmo" is part of that demographic. The demographic that never actually played EQ, but were involved in a social chat client. It's alright. I actually don't have anything against your kind. I just wish they would stop proclaiming what made everquest.... everquest, without having ever had to play the game.
Come to the light.
Why is declaring what class you played primarily in EQ a problem? I mean, I've demonized several classes because they were "and wait for other people to do stuff", but given your knowledge you aren't one of those. What class did you play in everquest that gives you this superiority complex when it comes to MMOs? It's a small thing - just enlighten us.
I think I've hit a nerve. You played a mostly AFK class for all of "classic" EQ, and are afraid to mention it. It's ok buddy; we understand. Almost every person who clamors for a "hardcore mmo" is part of that demographic. The demographic that never actually played EQ, but were involved in a social chat client. It's alright. I actually don't have anything against your kind. I just wish they would stop proclaiming what made everquest.... everquest, without having ever had to play the game.
Come to the light.
Excidium
Trakanon Raider
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TStaff? So you bought your gear from the market. AFK player indeed.
I played a Shround Monk on Xev and I never took the game seriously or thought it was good design and did all the raid pulling during the last two years of my time in EQ.
You nerds know damn well if this game or Pantheon releases, you'll be poop-socking it for 2 months straight on vacation. I will be there too (On PVP if at launch)!
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Nirgon
Log Wizard
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Ya they shouldn't do pvp and focus on the core.
The monk I played was someone else is guild. And I raped many, many try hards with it.
I can out pull a lot of monks on my SK alt too, but there's no comparison to monks power in that department.
Let's just be pals and enjoy this game. Hopefully no instances.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Yes, I am a bluebie. You have claimed (false) knowledge of SKs. What did you play? You have also claimed (false) knowledge of monks. The field has narrowed. Were you a ranger? Maybe a bard? Enlighten us.
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The funding for the WoW clones wouldn't even exist in the first place without WoW's success, and would've gone to games in other genres if WoW didn't exist. And if you think about it, it was the success of EQ what made WoW itself possible.
Everyone back in the day who had two braincells to rub together knew that we'd get a lot of WoW clones for a while, because that is how the gaming industry as a whole worked, and still works: look how many "Flappy Bird" and "Vampire Survivors" clones we have, or MOBA or tower defense games. It's inevitable.
Also, there were some MMOs that tried to do things differently to WoW, for example Ryzom. At the end of the day, it was not only the investment money: MMOs that tried to be different failed in part because players were conditioned in their expectations how an MMO worked. But, and here's the big BUT: EverQuest did the same for the genre, and players partially migrated to it, for example because they didn't like the FFA PvP aspect in UO, which then turned into that Trammel/Felucca thing.
That was a jab at Nirgon, who replied that he has no problems with camping for hours because he works from home in another thread. Also, I can't find you solution, so could you please link me to your post with it?
No, I freely admit that I just skim most of the postings, because frankly I have read the same arguments again and again. It's like talking to a circlejerking hivemind at this point, which is what those threads usually degenerate into. Of course you think I'm the asshole here, because I poke people and ask questions about things they take for granted, or even worse: holy scripture.
There are a lot, but you probably never heard of them because what most people underestimate is marketing/publishing. And most games on the indie side also fizzle out after a time. There are however some games that make it even to Steam, for example Project Gorgon that I linked. Then there's Albion, who also made it to Steam.
Another point to think about: Survival games are basically another evolution on MMO games. Things like Ark, Rust or V Rising basically take the MMO formula to a smaller level.
As for the EQ based games: Most EQ emu games have the benefit of an existing playerbase, and don't need as much marketing. Most emu games are also linked directly on the login server.
You could even just rent the Hero Engine and make an MMO, just look at the "Spotlight Games Currently in Development" on this page:
HeroEngine - Hero Games
HeroEngine is an all in one game development engine. The only game engine that allows real time updates and collaborative development no matter where your developers are located at in the world.
Excursion time: Back in the days there was a divide in the MUD playerbase between DikuMUD and the more roleplaying-oriented MUDs, mostly based on LPmud. DikuMUD was derided as "stupid hack&slay game for munchkins".
So, as you can see, the playerbase of a specific genre fighting against each other is as old as it gets.
No, but many attempts were made. For example, with the success of WoW Sun MIcrosystems tried to establish Java as a server-side language and wanted to create a turnkey server solution architecture for MMO games. Nowadays all mentions of it were scrubbed from the Web, especially after Oracle bought them.
It's also not that nobody tried it, it's just that development is spread far and thin. If you look at GitHub there are a lot of MMO servers. Of course a lot of them for WoW, but there are some others: Build software better, together
The biggest problem I see, is that for an MMO to work you need a lot of specific skillsets. The most important one you need at the beginning, is a server developer for the persistence and data management, and the server architecture + netcode. If you fuck that up you just end up with exploits down the line. Most experienced developers who have experience in that field easily make six figures on the job market, so why would they waste their time away on some hobby project? This is basically where Pantheon fails.
The other elephant in the room: For something as big as a world (and for an MMO you can't go smaller than "world"), you need to make development as easy as possible, and as interactive as possible, even for people who are not technically savy or want to write code. This also includes making development for many people at the same time possible. Basically, you need an "MMO, but as a development game".
Depends if you can establish a viable core playerbase and grow from there. But, as I said earlier, the "generating hype" thing is solely on marketing, and for indies, especially ones without a publisher, this is a really huge obstacle.
Pantheon solely exists because Brad McQuaid was an established name in the MMO genre, and M&M only exists in this form because Shawn is ex-SOE, has Twitch+Youtube channels and interviewed SOE folk about the history of EverQuest. If he wasn't already known, then this thread may not even exist.
The other problem is the locust swarm mentality of the playerbase. Basically, you need to be able to grow and shrink at the drop of a hat. Many attempts in this regard were made, but it boils down to sharding, layering, instancing. UO invented shading as a stop-gap solution and wanted to do away with it long-term, but never solved the problem.
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It's funny to me that you use the term "Care Bear" as an insult for your "anti-socialites" argument, when it was a term used by us EQ players on PvP servers to refer to the population of bluebie servers.
Also, trust me, the "anti-socialites" will find a way. The most obvious is multiboxing.
