Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Quaid

Quaid

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GuardianX said:
The premise they are running with on the "Spells staying with your corpse" is that "Melee character lose all their gear and have to run back naked, so should casters".

So, when you die, your spell book of all your spells stays on your corpse. The intent is that, when you run back, you don't have any spells available to be cast just like a melee character won't have any gear or weapons.

The reality is that casters can have multiple spell books (Spell book A with all your spells; Spell Book B with CR spells). So what will happen is that casters will have 2 spellbooks and still not suffer any real "fate" like melee characters where all your gear is on your corpse deep down a dungeon.

I understand their premise but, to me, the system seems more like an attempt at building character than a fleshed out system.

What I noticed too was that "Utility Spells" are cheap. So having a 2nd book for CR purposes (invisi / IVU / Gate / bind / Summon food / water) is going to be pretty cheap, under a gold. Sure, you aren't gunna be killing your way down to your corpse, but it'll get things done, especially for now with most things not seeing through invisi.
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A warrior or rogue loots a fine steel weapon at the dungeon entrance and they regain 60% of their effectiveness on a CR. But for whatever reason we’re gonna force entire groups to do a bank run because butthurt idiots thought a shitty system from 25 years ago wasn’t fair or something.

Make key caster abilities ‘innate’ in the same way feign death, taunt, stealth, etc are or abandon the whole concept.
 
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GuardianX

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Quaid said:
The answer is no, those skills are classified as ‘innate’, and stay on your memorized bar after death.

The premise is arbitrary and absurd.
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LoL thats funny.

Also, I wanna make it clear, I'm not arguing FOR this system. I think it's contrived but the double book system just kinda makes it non-existent, basically the EQ system but with more steps, as the MEME goes.

We had one deep CR in the Wyrm dungeon thing and it was comical because our group leader was like "Nick is sitting at the dungeon entrance I'm gunna spam him for summons", so he just sat at nick spamming him for like 2-3 minutes before our group leader just walked off and started actually CRing.

People don't like the system. Early game it'll be one of those things that is profoundly anti-new player that an interested consumer has to overcome in order to get deeper in the game, it will be a break-point for potential customers. Late game it'll just be one of those "Okay, go grab your CR stuff" annoyances. Should death be easier to retain customers? I don't know...it depends on who their market is.

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Who IS the actual market for MNM?

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These people won't ever leave Everquest. Once project Lantern comes out and updates EQ from Old as shit to Unity EQ, they will have even less reason to leave EQ. So not only will you be competing against Autism keeping the old EQ heads in EQ, you'll have an entirely free EMU scene based around Lantern. Sure, it's only 4-500 people in their poll but if they are basing any type of decisions on that poll...
 
Kharzette

Kharzette

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I made a storage crate on the ground because I didn't know what would happen, just to try it. Not sure how long those stay around, but you can make them for group/guild/personal/whoever.

I like the way death works, and I'm sure they will keep it the way it is now. The main reason the game is great is because they know what they want and don't listen to forum tards.

I like that you can see at a glance which casters have a spellbook on them. It is a piece of gear, not some magical skull storage. Innates are just that, skull storage.
 
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Quaid

Quaid

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Kharzette said:
I made a storage crate on the ground because I didn't know what would happen, just to try it. Not sure how long those stay around, but you can make them for group/guild/personal/whoever.

I like the way death works, and I'm sure they will keep it the way it is now. The main reason the game is great is because they know what they want and don't listen to forum tards.

I like that you can see at a glance which casters have a spellbook on them. It is a piece of gear, not some magical skull storage. Innates are just that, skull storage.
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lol they ARE forum tards - just like the rest of us. Nothing about the current spellbook system vis a vis death makes the game better. Or at least, i haven’t heard a good argument.

i know they lurk here, and they’re welcome to chime in and defend this shit.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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They got together and started making an actual game... more so than complaining, and I am all for complaining - but in this case it is not to some big sightless corporation or huddle of devs behind a blue hair fem wall, it is as you said, game and forum bros that actually are producing something of note.

Something that, judging from the IRL section of this forum - we have the talent to do, we just need someone to actually get people together and stay together and produce something.

Get to it.
 
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Quaid

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Kharzette said:
I made a storage crate on the ground because I didn't know what would happen, just to try it. Not sure how long those stay around, but you can make them for group/guild/personal/whoever.

I like the way death works, and I'm sure they will keep it the way it is now. The main reason the game is great is because they know what they want and don't listen to forum tards.

I like that you can see at a glance which casters have a spellbook on them. It is a piece of gear, not some magical skull storage. Innates are just that, skull storage.
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‘Magical skull storage’… you mean… memory?

Please explain why a rogue can remember how to stealth after they die, or a monk to feign death, but it’s ‘magical skull storage’ for a cleric to remember how to heal.
 
GuardianX

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Quaid said:
lol they ARE forum tards - just like the rest of us. Nothing about the current spellbook system vis a vis death makes the game better. Or at least, i haven’t heard a good argument.

i know they lurk here, and they’re welcome to chime in and defend this shit.
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I don't think they lurk, they post in this thread at the minimum LOL
 
Quaid

Quaid

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GuardianX said:
I don't think they lurk, they post in this thread at the minimum LOL
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Sure, I’ve seen them post.

What i haven’t seen is them chime in with the rationale behind these design decisions with anything outside ‘it’s early’ or ‘death should be meaningful’ as if we all don’t already know those things.

They obviously don’t owe us anything, but they’re the experts, so these logic behind these concepts should be easy to articulate.

If there’s something we haven’t thought about, let’s have it.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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Quaid said:
‘Magical skull storage’… you mean… memory?

Please explain why a rogue can remember how to stealth after they die, or a monk to feign death, but it’s ‘magical skull storage’ for a cleric to remember how to heal.
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There are a few dozen of one and five dozen of the other for magic systems. Many magic systems rely on chanting, focusing and using a spell book, source: Wicked the musical!

jk...on wicked...lol

Anyway - there are many variants of how magic works, in this world - apparently, you cannot just "in your head" recant a spell and it work, you need the MYSTIC RUNES LADDY in your book and the book.

Perhaps it can be like Harry Potter (yes I am using the most stupid examples) where you have to say the words, and use a wand, and focus, and not have an accent of you end up in the wrong place - but as you advance, there are spells you can do without saying the words aloud....sooo -- perhaps, maybe you can have a few "spell slots" to "perma mem" a few spells... OR... you can "cast without the book" X level below your level spells that you have "mastered" etc. it all, really...goes back to lore that affects the system...imo...kinda...
 
Kharzette

Kharzette

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Spells don't stay in memory. It's the old D&D trope of study being part of the fuel for the spell. It's a bit shortcut these days with mana though.

Shawn is a pro game designer. He's done this for a living for probably as long as I have. I'm not sure about the other team folk, I've only hung out in Shawn's stream.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Ah yes, the ‘RP REASONS!’ gameplay mechanic Macguffin. I guess it was only a matter of time.

Surely those always make the player experience more cohesive. How could i be so foolish?
 
GuardianX

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Quaid said:
What i haven’t seen is them chime in with the rationale behind these design decisions with anything outside ‘it’s early’ or ‘death should be meaningful’ as if we all don’t already know those things.
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I mean, they said what I said earlier.

I get you don't like it, and I certainly think it's contrived, that doesn't change what it is and, in my case, I'll have to wait and see it's impact on the game overall. I'm interested to see though.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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GuardianX said:
I mean, they said what I said earlier.

I get you don't like it, and I certainly think it's contrived, that doesn't change what it is and, in my case, I'll have to wait and see it's impact on the game overall. I'm interested to see though.
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Got a link to their statement?
 
Kithani

Kithani

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I think death should be permanent and lead to a 9 month IP ban while your character is reborn in the womb at level 1
 
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GuardianX

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Kithani said:
I think death should be permanent and lead to a 9 month IP ban while your character is reborn in the womb at level 1
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HAHAH

I mean...they have hardcore and what looks like a new game mode called "Pauper". I don't know about Pauper though, after digging around I think it's more meant as a "Solo Self Found" mode:

From POE, because I didn't know what Solo Self Found was: "Solo Self-Found (SSF) is a feature that marks a character to be unable to interact with other characters, which disables features like trading or partying"
 
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