Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Lots of classes isn't much of a big deal as long as you don't overtune your content to require specialists. If you make content too hard that it requires a warrior/cleric then of course all the other classes are going to suffer. But if there's enough content or its not so tuned that a group is fine with a pal/druid or Sk/Shaman as tank/healing then you'll be fine.

A concept that EQ got...most likely accidentally... but its unbalance, was balance.

WOW to this day annoys me at its ever fixing things goal of perfect balance. Your a druid and want to be the best magic dmg, physical dmg, tank, and healer? sure.

I was a human SK in classic, and in p1999 etc. It is such a fun class if you "get gud bro" and a fun alternative to a tank if your just surface level.

I rarely had time to group, I soloed as a SK most of my levels. Most of my group time etc. I was raiding, those were the time sinks I could get away with. Generally I only had like 30min to 1hr to play- an we know that is just getting a group started lol so I would just solo.

Fogel said:

Lots of classes isn't much of a big deal as long as you don't overtune your content to require specialists. If you make content too hard that it requires a warrior/cleric then of course all the other classes are going to suffer. But if there's enough content or its not so tuned that a group is fine with a pal/druid or Sk/Shaman as tank/healing then you'll be fine.

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This is so true. And only works if developers are comfortable with the idea that the "perfect group" is going to steamroll their content. Most developers are too insecure to deal with their content being roflstomped and the outcry from players who want the easy mode on their non-perfect group setups.

Hatorade said:

Exactly this, bring on the broken shit!

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Situationally OP is fine

Siliconemelons said:

EQ2 did a ton of things right, but because its attachment rate was soo low, what it did wrong (and it did) was very detrimental to its success while it was fighting up hill against WOW.

For those that did do the EQ2 thing, did they ever finish the lore, quests etc. of Freeport- Lucan vs Quenos- Marr? To me playing in freeport it was kind of a Seru type thing where it seemed as if there was a big long quest to get up to meeting Lucan etc.

The classes starting as base classes then branching out was good, but should not have been /fully/ alignment locked. Pal/SK and Necro/Cleric obviously but many were duplicates simply to do the alignment.

Edit: No one seems to mention the classic EQ2 voice acting for neigh everything, it was quite well done imo.

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I'm not sure what they did in terms of lore long term. I really liked that piece too. EQ2 did a lot of good things but some how overlooked or got hung up on things that really hurt the QoL as those issues were neglected and/or compounded. Housing, tradeskills, Lore & Legends, and the link to the overall lore and story of EQ was great. Their voice acting was cool and I thought their character progression and dungeons were also very good.

They could really do some good with EQ and EQ2 in a remastered kind of way. They could leave the current games up and remaster them with some of the primary issues addressed. It's been discussed more times than I can count but I don't understand why they keep sinking time and money into expansions when they could have just kept doing the TLP thing over the last 3-5 years and put those resources to relaunching those titles. I'm sure its tied to the business side of things but the last ______ expansions have been pointless imo. Those people could have made some more meaningful progress while TLP kept it barely breathing. That's just my armchair coach perspective.

I don't want to take away from what M&M are doing with my annual nostalgic what could have/should have been out of respect to this game but I hope they're reading the forums here and maybe some others to learn from some of these mistakes. I'm sure they're aware of them but to have such a limited playerbase, maybe niche is a better word, you have smaller room for error. I don't envy them but I'm appreciative they're trying. You have to try to capture the good, avoid the bad, but also bring in the QoL changes that doesn't impact the good and reinvite some of the bad.

Siliconemelons said:

Right, because EQ2 good / evil alignment locked the specializations they were inherently doubled - so there is a lot in EQ2 as an example to consolidate, as most differences where names of skills and a few (very few) specialties. Didn't they combine many in current EQ2?

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They kind of did the opposite. While it's true most subclasses felt functionally similar to their counterpart at launch, that had changed pretty drastically by the launch of the 4th expansion (Kunark).

Warriors: Berserkers got more AoE damage and threat tools, Guardians got more defensive tools
Crusaders: Paladin and SK were already very different so not much needed to change here
Brawlers: Monks gained more defensive support skills and Bruisers gained offensive support skills

Sorcerers: Wizards doubled down on single target damage while Warlocks doubled down on AoE
Summoners: Conjurers got more offensive support, Necromancers got more direct damage
Enchanters: Coercers got more defensive support, Illusionists got more offensive support

Druids: Wardens got more and stronger heals, Furies got more damage and offensive support
Clerics: Templars got more raw healing, Inquisitors got more offensive support
Shamans: Mystics got more well-rounded support while Defilers got more main tank support

Predators: Rangers and Assassins were already pretty different
Rogues: Swashies got more tools to debuff mobs' offense while Brigs got more tools to debuff mob defenses
Bards: Troubadors got more buffs that boosted Mages and Priests while Dirges got more buffs that focused on Fighters and Scouts

These increased specializations allowed you to build more optimal group and raid comps if you had access to people on those classes, but they never felt required for any content. While balance was never perfect, I never felt like it was in a state where one class completely overshadowed every other in its role (except for the very beginning of Kunark when SK and Assassins were totally overpowered, but that was eventually sorted out).

Nick — Today at 9:42 AM
@Public Test Notifications @News Notifications This month we will be holding a Stress Test on Saturday, November 11th, 2023 at 1:00 PM EST. We want to test our server stability and work out any kinks ahead of our upcoming, longer playtest this December. We hope to see you there! The expected window of play for this Stress Test will be 2-3 hours.

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Another test coming up Nov 11th.

There's a new dev spotlight up on reddit:

Confirmed Stress Test this month! Not this Saturday, but next, November 11th @ 1pm EST.
<@&1101585692921966683> <@&851253542865076265> This month we will be holding a Stress Test on __**Saturday, November 11th, 2023 at 1:00 PM EST**__. We want to test our server stability and work out any kinks ahead of our upcoming, longer playtest this December. We hope to see you there! The expected window of play for this Stress Test will be 2-3 hours.

Exact Time/Date converted to your Timezone: <t:1699725600:F>

Account Creation and Download: <Monsters & Memories - Account Management>

And another one guaranteed in December! So 2 before year's end!

Apologies for the formatting... here's a post from X...

Still kicking myself for missing the others. Gotta get in on at least the December one.

Sylas said:

obviously its an Ogre Magi

"Concentrated Coolness" is the name of the game as far as classes go. Less is more. Still can't think of a single game with more than 8-10 unique/cool/useful classes.

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Must have two heads.

They're gonna have a bigger weekend test in December I believe. I wish I could get lucky like Nirgon and get an invite. Dude must be greasing up all kinds of hammies.

Hekotat said:

They're gonna have a bigger weekend test in December I believe. I wish I could get lucky like Nirgon and get an invite. Dude must be greasing up all kinds of hammies.

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I provide excellent prophecies and proverbs

This dragon tho!

Woefully Inept said:

This dragon tho!

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If it doesn't drop a Cloak of Flames, they should be sued into bankruptcy.

yes pls