MTG thread

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Arbitrary_sl said:
Out of my range? I've been playing on and off for over two decades. At different points I've owned a good chunk of everything there is to own. I care about Magic the Gathering as a game. I'd like more people to be able to play more formats because there's a whole bunch of cool cards throughout the game's history that people never get to play with and never even had the chance to play with. Seeing newer players draft Eternal Masters and get to play with all those new (old) that I remember, seeing someone play with Mana Crypt for the first time, or a match getting blown out by Balance, is really cool to me. Man, this game sure is great. It would be great if its rich history was open to more players.

That's how I see things. You want to compare Magic to luxury cars.

Driving a Ferrari gto250 is a great experience also, it would be awesome if more people could enjoy that.

Though shit.

McShrimp · Jul 6, 2016

Drtyrm_sl said:
Oh and rules question for you Heylel. I cast Languish, opponent swallows it with Spell Queller. Opponent's end step, I Grasp of Darkness the dude. I can cast Languish during his endstep because of the leaves the battlefield trigger right? Is there something to look for in the wording of these cards that helps to figure when it limits the spell to normal timing? Is it the 'cast that card' part?

AFAIK the way its worded it gets around the sorcery timing. Its part of the Queller trigger resolving, so if the spell owner chooses to cast the spell, it'd go on the stack immediately after, regardless of what type of spell.

If it was worded as "until end of turn" or "as long as blah blah" then I'm pretty sure the spell timing does matter.

Arbitrary · Jul 6, 2016

Punko_sl said:
Driving a Ferrari gto250 is a great experience also, it would be awesome if more people could enjoy that.

Though shit.

Dear Hasbro,

I enjoy one of your products a great deal and while I understand you are a game and toy company a big part of my enjoyment of this product comes from other people being kept away and a big part of my self-identity is tied to being on the inside of this exclusion rather than the outside.

Please perpetuate this forever,

Punko

ronne · Jul 6, 2016

Drtyrm_sl said:
I think the opposing position is that Vintage prices are on the rise because of scarcity, not because of the 'health' of the Vintage format.

We know for a fact the prices on a few Legacy cards went thru the roof because of a sudden 'scarcity'.

There also are more copies of Vintage staples available than there are some of the Legacy cards, but a lot of that probably has to do mostly with the recent events.

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Ronne_sl said:
There also are more copies of Vintage staples available than there are some of the Legacy cards, but a lot of that probably has to do mostly with the recent events.

the legacy staples that got bought out are popular in EDH also, which is very much alive

lets just ignore that for the convenience of the argument being made by the "legacy is dead" people here

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Arbitrary_sl said:
Dear Hasbro,

I enjoy one of your products a great deal and while I understand you are a game and toy company a big part of my enjoyment of this product comes from other people being kept away and a big part of my self-identity is tied to being on the inside of this exclusion rather than the outside.

Please perpetuate this forever,

Punko

I guess I'll have my fries without salt today, I can read your post a couple of times

Maybe they'll reprint IE or CE edition in some form, that way you can enjoy the older formats also.

Until then, I expect some to keep claiming a format is dead because they can't play it.

Its fine, I look forward to italian Tabernacles hitting 1k$ and you playing with purple bordered versions.

Win-Win!

Heylel · Jul 6, 2016

Ronne_sl said:
Vintage is by definition a dead format. The staple cards of every viable deck are in ultra-limited supply, with price tags to match, which means the player base can only shrink and never expand. It's a plenty amusing format, but it just isn't viable in 2016.

Eh. Vintage events are consistently bigger every year. Eternal Weekend is basically a vintage convention. We run sanctioned vintage at my local shop once a month for basically bragging rights as prizes (random foreign stuff, usually $20-40 range), and consistently get 12-15 powered decks plus a smattering of unpowered stuff like eldrazi or hatebears.

Yeah, it's a small crowd. It's not cheap to play. But it isn't dead. Christ, themanadrain.com just changed owners and is thriving, relatively speaking.

Arbitrary · Jul 6, 2016

I didn't say Legacy is dead. I said in a few years Legacy would be dead. The long term plan by WotC is to just let you all live on your own little island forever with minimal support and wait for Modern to take it's place. For black swans you've got a breakthrough in counterfeit card quality, a shake-up at Hasbro leading to a reverse of reserved list policy, or these targeted buyouts eventually forcing action.

Heylel · Jul 6, 2016

Ronne_sl said:
Goddamnit now I have to agree with a_skeleton_03.

People treating it as a small time investment vessel does not a functional or healthy game format make. Look at the Moat buyout and what it has started. By the end of the month you'll see every copy of every playable reserve list card drained from the markets, and then what? Legacy becomes actually inaccessible for new players?

Honestly I have to assume that is the long game wotc is playing right now. Let Legacy choke itself out of existence, ride the Modern train and the MM reprint cycle in to mad cash.

The same thing was said in 2013. And 2011. And even earlier. I remember being 16 and thinking "man, why is Psionic Blast so expensive? At some point people are going to buy up all the $5 copies and price the game out of reach for kids like me."

Prices rise periodically. The game expands, and more players want the old cards. They're definitely changing hands regularly. I see it practically every weekend.

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Arbitrary_sl said:
I didn't say Legacy is dead. I said in a few years Legacy would be dead. The long term plan by WotC is to just let you all live on your own little island forever with minimal support and wait for Modern to take it's place. For black swans you've got a breakthrough in counterfeit card quality, a shake-up at Hasbro leading to a reverse of reserved list policy, or these targeted buyouts eventually forcing action.

I think I've posted this, but why would Legacy die "in a few years", while Vintage is still going strong?

You keep posting about "excluded" and whatnot, seems there is some other issue here.

Do you go into the "what car do you own" thread and tell people their expensive cars are about to break down?

Seriously keep it together pal.

Heylel · Jul 6, 2016

Arbitrary_sl said:
I didn't say Legacy is dead. I said in a few years Legacy would be dead. The long term plan by WotC is to just let you all live on your own little island forever with minimal support and wait for Modern to take it's place. For black swans you've got a breakthrough in counterfeit card quality, a shake-up at Hasbro leading to a reverse of reserved list policy, or these targeted buyouts eventually forcing action.

I'm perfectly fine with them leaving legacy and vintage just as they are now. We get plenty of support.

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Heylel_sl said:
Prices rise periodically. The game expands, and more players want the old cards. They're definitely changing hands regularly. I see it practically every weekend.

This really.

Our LGS gained a new player last year, a russian post-doctorate student working on some kind of healthcare shit.. in a few years that guy is going to have a solid income, and he'll just buy shit at whatever its priced at.

Arbitrary · Jul 6, 2016

Punko_sl said:
You keep posting about "excluded" and whatnot, seems there is some other issue here.

Punko_sl said:
The gap between poor - rich is growing globally, this is a trend which is perfect for eternal formats.

.

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

So what is your point?

Economical reality an issue?

Sorry again.

Try downvoting me again, perhaps it will help!

I'm social like that. I even upvoted you!

If you think the format will die, play fucking proxies at your kitchen-table, but stop being frustrated about reality as it is. There is no denying that legacy prices will grow towards vintage prices, and there is a whole lot of room for legacy to catch up to vintage, until the price increases reduce the legacy audience to the size of the current vintage audience, which still is alive and playing.

You can even proxy vintage, which is the most fun format, and since its not being played competitively according to you, a 0.003$ proxy is as good as anything, right?

Jealous people are never happy.

Zaide · Jul 6, 2016

Punko_sl said:
This really.

Our LGS gained a new player last year, a russian post-doctorate student working on some kind of healthcare shit.. in a few years that guy is going to have a solid income, and he'll just buy shit at whatever its priced at.

Guys it's okay. They gained one new possible vintage player last year who will be able to actually buy worthwhile cards in just a few years!

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Zaide_sl said:
Guys it's okay. They gained one new possible vintage player last year who will be able to actually buy worthwhile cards in just a few years!

Indeed, when at a 50 player LGS, gaining 1 new Vintage player / year, is pretty solid!

There certainly hasn't been anyone selling out

Which of course is a trend, or prices wouldn't be rising, right!

Thread is pretty entertaining, thx guys

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

I mean if vintage is dead and legacy is dying, why not proxy the expensive cards?

Suits every goal, except competitive, and since dead / dying formats don't have competitive games ..?

Someone elaborate, I'm not understanding the problem here.

Arbitrary · Jul 6, 2016

Everyone I know that plays those formats uses proxies. Putting a deck together takes time so there's no reason to not proxy up what you want to build and start playing with it the first afternoon.

WotC says proxies are a no-go and doesn't even want stores running events in which they are allowed.

Punko · Jul 6, 2016

Who cares about proxies for a dying format man, its not like stores are going to keep organising those events.

I don't think you are buying your own argument.

The Wotc case against proxies is only in DCI-sanctioned events afaik.

Arbitrary · Jul 6, 2016

Fine, you've convinced me that there's no point in continuing any discussion with you.

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