MTG thread

Picked up a playset of Jace for a bit under 40, which was nice given the fact that I traded one for 50 in credit last fall. Seems like UW? control might be a thing with a lot of key cards being from the ravnica block and not much rotating. Looking at block, both esper and grixis control look like a thing which can give hints about post rotation. If not, oh well.. I'll just stick with modern and legacy. I have no desire whatsoever to chase the "latest" cards for standard at their tip top prices.

Wuyley_sl said:

To all of you bitching about the core sets and the simplicity of them you are missing the whole point of core sets. They aren't for you. Yes some of you said that they know that they are geared towards new players but then go on to bitch about them being simple and easy to figure out. Well no shit. Sure they put some decent standard cards in the set but that is not the main point.

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I don't know if you were including me in this comment, but I specifically said simple does not need to mean under-powered. They can, and have printed powerful and valuable cards in a core set that are relatively easy to figure out for a new player (baneslayer, titans, thragtusk, etc..). They normally just do it at mythic though, and they need to bring more power to the rares and uncommons to make it a fun set to draft, and worthwhile to buy for experienced players as well. Putting staple removal in the core set at uncommon, for example, and more 'theme-less' rares that can slot into multiple deck types that arise out of the expert level sets.

I personally never had a problem with titans, cause before that games were often decided by the 4th turn in standard, and spells over 4 mana were rarely played by anything other then pure control decks. People seem to have forgotten that Wizards deliberately slowed the game down leading into the introduction of Titans. As powerful as they were, if you had a gameplan for them in mind (save a removal spell? Win before they hit the table?) you at least got two extra turns and a chance for your deck to do it's thing.

Secondly, I've taught new players how to play the game, and most of them learn very quickly that core sets suck. Either from an experienced player dissing it, not getting much trade value out of the packs they buy, or figuring it out for themselves when they compare to the awesome cards they get in other sets. I just can't believe any core set has significantly outsold even the worst expert level expansion of the same year.
Most new players I've met either buy duel decks and keep playing those, or start learning enough about the game that they jump into the expert level sets to power up their duel decks quickly.

We KNOW core sets aren't for 'us', but I don't think it's hitting their target demographic very well either. The duel decks, and fatpacks even, have been a vastly superior product in this regard.

Mist_sl said:

Exactly. ALL sets are designed now under the NWO principles where commons have a cap on complexity. I would also say that haven't a valueless set like m14 is especially BAD for new players when they can't trade any of the cards they get for cards they need.

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This. All standard sets are designed for new players with the commons.

Core should be legal for two years and have expert level cards to balance the various metagames. Vanilla cards nobody wants to use are pointless?

I totally understand having the core set be simpler cards. Simpler doesn't have to mean vanilla or boring, it just means their effects are more straightforward. M14's problem is that too many of the cards are *weak*, not that they're boring. Thundermaw Hellkite is a very simple card, and a very good one. Now compare that to Scourge of Valkas, which is both more complex and weaker in every way. It's smaller, harder to cast, and its immediate impact requires calculation as well as being far weaker. It's like a dragon of yesteryear. Then they go and put it in the same set as Shivan Dragon for no damn reason. Lots of the rares are this way. Nightmare is a fairly simple card, but it's also a weak one when similar effects that are much stronger (though still largely unplayable) have been recently printed. It should have been an uncommon alongside Serra and Sengir Vampire.

Meanwhile, the mythics were clearly designed with an eye towards timmy. The hydra will probably prove out, and maybe archangel too, but the rest of the mythics are obviously learner cards for new players. Big, flashy effects that cost way too much but will be played at kitchen tables and nowhere else. Devout Invocation, Rise of the Dark Realms, etc. That's a poor use of mythic slots, but at least they didn't make Mutavault and Scavenging Ooze mythics instead.

Heylel_sl said:

I totally understand having the core set be simpler cards. Simpler doesn't have to mean vanilla or boring, it just means their effects are more straightforward. M14's problem is that too many of the cards are *weak*, not that they're boring. Thundermaw Hellkite is a very simple card, and a very good one. Now compare that to Scourge of Valkas, which is both more complex and weaker in every way. It's smaller, harder to cast, and its immediate impact requires calculation as well as being far weaker. It's like a dragon of yesteryear. Then they go and put it in the same set as Shivan Dragon for no damn reason. Lots of the rares are this way. Nightmare is a fairly simple card, but it's also a weak one when similar effects that are much stronger (though still largely unplayable) have been recently printed. It should have been an uncommon alongside Serra and Sengir Vampire.

Meanwhile, the mythics were clearly designed with an eye towards timmy. The hydra will probably prove out, and maybe archangel too, but the rest of the mythics are obviously learner cards for new players. Big, flashy effects that cost way too much but will be played at kitchen tables and nowhere else. Devout Invocation, Rise of the Dark Realms, etc. That's a poor use of mythic slots, but at least they didn't make Mutavault and Scavenging Ooze mythics instead.

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The mythics are largely EDH cards, which imo is a good thing. As much fun as $50 Voice of Resurgence is I'd prefer not to have a repeat. In other news I played against my first "SERIOUS BUSINESS ONRY" player last night at FNM. No one was allowed talking to us during the game, not even to just joke around. His tears were delicious when I beat him in a 30 turn game despite him swinging for 50 damage the turn before he lost. He had enough slivers out for +5/3 to each sliver and then Act of Treason'd my double strike Stornhorn Chanter and Groundshaker Sliver and managed to get 34 damage through. I understand being serious at a PTQ, but at a FNM it was kind of ridiculous.

* Edit: Voice of Resurgence is $30 on eBay, but still.

Heylel_sl said:

Devout Invocation, Rise of the Dark Realms, etc. That's a poor use of mythic slots, but at least they didn't make Mutavault and Scavenging Ooze mythics instead.

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Many of them are also EDH cards

Hah... JTMS in FTV! Wo

Wow, that 60$ I spent on a pre-order is lookin tits!

Is there even any FTV spoilers out?

Yeah.. JTMS, Gilded Lotus and Impulse are the 3 mentioned at the SDCC Panel

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...489819&page=78

Jace in FTV20 just blew my fucking mind. Im calling all the stores now about preorders but its looking grim.

Just called 4 shops (including one I despise). No one is doing pre-orders around here yet since they don't even know how many they're getting.

The fact that stores even bother to do presales on FTVs still blows my mind. Also all the info on Theros makes the set look really fucking cool.

Do they sell them at msrp, and then the price gets jacked up?

I should be able to get at least one FTV at MSRP. Any more than that would be pushing it, unfortunately.

The few stores around here are pretty loyal to customers and don't raise the price on shit that's limited release. Hell they gave away an Arsenal to a commander tourney with no entry fee to compete it.

Theros sounds nuts, Legendary and Enchantment subthemes as thought. Mostly mono coloured.

Sounds like they may have some command zone stuff going on with Hero and God cards.

I am confused about the FTV cards. I thought Jace was a banned card from most formats and thus they did not reprint them. I am obviously confused about this format/printing.