MTG thread

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I've got a thread on the beta forums where I think I figured out why they are being so stingy with the economy. I think the business execs don't want to create a viable f2p model for MTGA, for fear it'll just cannibalize their paper market. If there was an actual good digital form of magic, that cost a fraction of paper/MTGO, I think lots of players would just move over and stop spending hundreds each month on boosters/boxes/etc.

It's the only thing that explains how they could possibly make these kinds of changes despite an overwhelmingly amount of feedback telling them the opposite. So, the devs are being forced to act like there is a way to play it for free, while simultaneously making it so bad that you are forced to buy packs to actually play, and finding a way to make it 'feel' like you don't have to when you really do.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
8,257
7,804
That's been a tinfoil theory about why MTGO is such ass for for just about ever as well, but I don't think it holds water anymore. Things have changed way too much and not having a viable and accessible online product is a serious detriment to MTG at this point. The market for an online game is simply too huge for them to ignore, regardless of any concern of paper cannibalization.

Like read this shit and tell me they can't finally see the writing on the wall and are going to give Arena an actual, meaningful push to try and become a relevant game from this decade:

MtG Dash: I Introduce My Cousin Timmy to Magic: An Anecdote about Disruption
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I sure hope so, it seems obvious to me and the majority of the beta forums that they could make a lot more by making the game cheaper. You let the whales buy up full foil/golden sets, but make it at least possible for a f2p/cheap player to compete with them.

There was some posts on the board in the last few hours from the devs about the economy. They are reverting the change to the vault at least, putting the mythic wildcard back in, but their targets for 'packs per day' still seem too low. There are a few other areas they might be able to improve, such as increasing wildcard drop rates from packs, that would make a significant difference in how long it takes to actually build a deck. But, I'm still not holding my breath.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
8,257
7,804
Yea that blog post is purely anecdotal etc etc but it really speaks volumes about how absurd the prospect of buying in to paper MTG is to someone who has never played it, especially if they are younger/don't have a bunch of disposable income to toss at it.

They dumped 3 free packs on everyone in Arena yesterday with their "economy" update and claim more changes are coming, but we'll see. Their target of slightly less than one pack per day is really troubling still given the size of the card pool in general and how many of those cards are nowhere near constructed playable. They are really going to need to cave a bit on this wildcard system and allow people to convert some number of the same rarity card in to a matching wildcard, otherwise the random casuals are going to open some packs, get saddled with x3 Star of Extinction and no wildcards to make their Polyraptor and just quit.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,942
138,362
Or you know, have a draft format so you can use the cards. That would make the grind so much more tolerable.
 
Last edited:

Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
323
159
Or you know, have a draft format so you can use the cards. That would make the grind so much more tolerable.

How do you use cards you collected in a draft format, dont you open packs for a draft? Or am I being dense here?
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,942
138,362
How do you use cards you collected in a draft format, dont you open packs for a draft? Or am I being dense here?

You could pay to draft and keep what you drafted for constructed.

You'd actually use the crap that's not fit for constructed while you drafted though.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
so.. i've never followed much of the general forums on here, so i missed most of Lumi's craziness and don't know what happened to him, but I think I found him on the arena beta forums :-/ Same nickname, and he's being quite ridiculous.
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,932
23,484
Yep, that's him. He's talked about it in other threads on this forum as well. He seems to do pretty well at card games, so card-game-related ranting is a bit more palatable than Planet X Lizardmen ranting.

I'm betting dollars to donuts that when they implement Draft, they'll initially fuck it up and the Vault will be dusting everything you draft in excess of 4 copies in your collection, leaving you with a mostly empty draft deck.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I'm betting dollars to donuts that when they implement Draft, they'll initially fuck it up and the Vault will be dusting everything you draft in excess of 4 copies in your collection, leaving you with a mostly empty draft deck.
LOL! I can totally see a bug like this happening on day 1, requiring a hotfix within a few hours or just taking it down completely.
 

Punko

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
8,006
12,832
i can see them let people invest money and stop updating the client even though it has a future

wait, they already did that
 
  • 1Salty
Reactions: 1 user

Duskoy

Blackwing Lair Raider
244
429
Was looking to get back into MTG after about a 15 year hiatus (sold all of my cards many years ago) but have no idea where to start. I have about $250 to spend but am unsure as to which recent sets I should invest in/buy a box of. Should I wait for Dominaria?

How much has changed? Is the game concept pretty much the same?
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,932
23,484
If you are interested in playing Standard, there is a rotation coming in the Fall. The Sets that will rotate out at that time are as follows: Kaladesh, Aether Revolt, Amonkhet, and Hour of Devastation; so I would suggest not buying too heavily into any of those sets.

www.mtggoldfish.com has a pretty well maintained decklists/metagame section where you can look at what decks are popular in each format, to try to find something to fits your tastes. It also has budget deck sections for if you just want to dip your toes in and see if you actually want to go further.

The most popular constructed formats these days are Modern (All cards from 8th Edition Forward), Standard (Yearly Rotation, 5-8 sets in the format at a time), and Commander (Casual multiplayer format, 100 card singleton with special rules). Block constructed has been fully retired. Legacy still exists and is supported, but is well out of your listed price range.

My suggestion with 250 bucks would be to go to mtggoldfish and look at the metagame decks for standard or modern (although you're less likely to find an affordable one for modern, due to expensive land concerns). Many of them will have play-footage linked at the bottom of the page so that you can get a feel for how they play and decide what deck you'd want to give a go. Then, I'd settle on a list that's hopefully not too balls-deep on the rotating sets, and go to TCGplayer (american) or Magic Kard Market (european) and buy the specific singles you need to build the deck/s you like. Straight up buying booster boxes doesn't really give you things you need for play, at least, not without throwing a silly pile of cash at it. Alternatively, if you like buying stuff from your local stores and don't like singles shopping, Challenger Decks are coming out next month, which are off-the-shelf Constructed Standard decks with pretty good value in cards. They're about $30 each and give you a solid foundation for a decent standard deck. The one iffy part of the Challenger decks is that they contain a lot of cards that'll rotate in the fall, but if you just want to have quick compact fun for the next 4-5 months they fit the bill. Of course, with a new set coming out in ~3 weeks, it's anyone's guess what will be strong then :)

The Black/White Vampires deck that's been doing okay recently might be a good conservative investment, as it relies on few cards from the sets that will be rotating in the fall, and of those cards, the most expensive are lands that will likely retain their value or be easy to trade/resell.


There's also Commander and the upcoming Brawl formats that are potential cheap casual play options, but that depends heavily on your local playerbase. Brawl is brand new, so there's no way to know if it's going to be popular, and Commander's powerlevel is wildly variant from group to group. In one group, a $70 upgraded preconstructed deck is a good powerlevel, in another group your opponent will throw a bunch of moxen and timetwisters at you first turn and your wallet will die. If you decide to Draft in standard as your way of collection building, Brawl will naturally make use of your excess draft chaff, since it's restricted to standard-legal cards.

Another option that will open itself later this year is MTG Arena, Magic's new "free to play" digital platform. This is pretty much strictly Standard/Brawl/Limited focused though, and the economics of it are still being hammered out.

So that's the economics bit.

Gameplay:
Main changes since 15 years ago would be:
-Mana Burn no longer exists.
-Damage does not use the stack. This has made creatures with sacrifice abilities a bit worse, but has improved the gameplay tension of making choices with said creatures, unlike before, where the correct option was always "sacrifice with damage on the stack."
-Planeswalkers are a new card type added to the game. They represent fellow Planeswalkers who are helping you out for a time. They enter play with a certain # of "Loyalty" counters, and can be attacked by creatures and shot by burn spells that target them, losing "Loyalty" in much the same way you lose life. Each planeswalker have a series of Loyalty Abilities, of which they can only activate one per turn. Usually, one ability increases their loyalty for a small effect, another ability decreases their loyalty for a medium effect, and the third ability decreases loyalty a *lot* for a big effect. You discard the planeswalker from play when its Loyalty hits zero.
-The Legend Rule changed twice while you were gone. The current form of the Legend rule is basically: if you control two Legendary Permanents with the same Name, put one of them into your graveyard immediatly. You and your opponent can both have the same Legend in play with no consequences.
-Generally, Creatures are much more powerful than when you played, and Instants/Sorceries are generally weaker. Face burn has been reeled in significantly over the last few years, as have Counterspells.
-A new level of rarity was added to the game; Mythic Rare. There are roughly 15 Mythic Rares in a set, and you average about 5 Mythic Rares per booster box. Planeswalkers are always Mythic Rare, and the general philosophy of Mythic Rare is supposed to be "super sweet splashy cards," but sometimes they go for selling packs and greed and just slap a cheap efficient constructed staple in there :)
-Colorless Mana now has a Symbol, instead of sharing the number-in-a-circle symbology of Generic Mana (which is still around, and is what shows up in costs). The new symbol is a Diamond-shape with gray backing.
-Combat has had some adjustments that only really matter in extreme corner cases, but it'd probably do you well to just read the rules entry for the combat phase so you don't get caught offguard when someone does something in a step you didn't realize existed because we still shorthand things the same way we did before :D
-Equipment, a new artifact subtype was added in 2003, so i don't know if that was before or after you quit, but it's basically re-usable Enchant Creatures (which are also now called Auras), and mostly sucks balls because it's hard to design balanced ones.
-Vehicles, a new artifact subtype was added a year and a half ago. You tap creatures to "crew" the vehicle, turning it into an Artifact Creature and letting it attack/block/do shenanigans. They are very similar to Equipment, and mostly bad.
-A lot of random terminology adjustments. "In play" is now "on the Battlefield," because folks got confused between "playing" a spell and having a card "in play." "Dies" is shorthand for "moves from the Battlefield to the Graveyard." Remove From Game replaced with "Exile." A new ability, "Lifelink," has replaced the old "Whenever this creature deals damage, gain that much life," on newer cards, but is mechanically distinct from the older cards with that ability.
-Mulligans have changed. When you mulligan, you shuffle your hand into your deck, then draw Cards equal to the number of cards you shuffled in, minus 1. You then decide to keep or to mulligan again (losing another card if you mulligan again). Then, once you've settled on a hand, if it has 6 or fewer cards in it, you get to "scry 1", which means "look at the top card of your library, and choose to either put that card on the top or the bottom of your library." Makes the first mulligan a lot less punishing.
-Glorious Lands-In-Back Partisans finally won the long and bloody Lands-in-Back vs Lands-in-Front war.
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,285
1,517
They either need to make it fully f2p with purchasable cosmetics or make it MtGO 2 where the cards are tradable and a full set can be redeemed for real life cards. Anything else would be retarded.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
28,962
79,463
Was looking to get back into MTG after about a 15 year hiatus (sold all of my cards many years ago) but have no idea where to start. I have about $250 to spend but am unsure as to which recent sets I should invest in/buy a box of. Should I wait for Dominaria?

How much has changed? Is the game concept pretty much the same?

Alright, buy a couple of these -

Challenger Decks Lists

These decks are the closest thing to a catch-up mechanic that Standard has. They have an MSRP of 30 dollars each with the mono red deck selling for about 10 dollars above that. I'd say buy that one or the Vehicle Rush deck and then go play some games. If you aren't at all interested in what you find the game is like than you've just saved yourself a couple hundred dollars.

Magic Arena, a new digital product with a Hearthstone style free to play system, is in closed beta. This might be just what you're looking for but it doesn't have a release date yet.
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,932
23,484
Smuggler's copter apparently scared them real good. The Weatherlight is balls.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
8,257
7,804
Most of this set is balls. It's like llanowar elves, the legendary doomblade thing, that white ancient stirrings for cards that might actually matter then just a bunch of commander wank.
 
  • 1Barf
Reactions: 1 user

Derpa

Trakanon Raider
2,009
664
Has there been any indication yet of there being a masterpiece series for this set?

None at all that I've seen or heard. Which is disappointing and amazing at the same time, since lot of people figured this would be one of those "special" sets for masterpieces.