MTG thread
- Thread starter brekk
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
OneofOne
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 8,006
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I sold my legacy collection.
Trust in the game is gone, also I can't even remotely see legacy price increases that match those of the past.
Somewhere around 2010 I got 2 ITA tabernacles for 375 each. I sold the worse condition one for 750 within a few years, and the better one for 2400 (minus buyer percentage) just now.
Good times, but they are over.
Trust in the game is gone, also I can't even remotely see legacy price increases that match those of the past.
Somewhere around 2010 I got 2 ITA tabernacles for 375 each. I sold the worse condition one for 750 within a few years, and the better one for 2400 (minus buyer percentage) just now.
Good times, but they are over.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Investments don't go up in a straight line forever. Be glad you got what you got.
It's not in WOTC's interest to help you grow your investment, they are just trying to sell cards.
Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 8,006
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I am happy with the returns.
It is in WOTC's interest to turn as many non-standard players into standard players.
Anything that makes other formats more popular detracts from their box sales. This is their vision for paper.
This does conflict with their online model, where a lot of money is made with vintage drafts and such.
Fact that they offer fuck all support for the older formats irl, but keep suporting it in MTGO shows how sound their strategy is.
The number of blue haired people that can afford legacy or vintage is low though, so I see it from that angle.
Strong sell advice.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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Everything you've said has been true for 10+ years now. And honestly has been true since "Type 2" was invented over 25 years ago.
Also, Standard is one of the least popular paper formats right now.
Your logic also doesn't make sense. The only thing WOTC could do to make Legacy and Vintage more popular would be to print those cards, which would also hurt your investment.
The only thing that made sense in everything that you said is that yes, you should sell your Legacy and Vintage cards. There is a theoretical limit on how popular Vintage and Legacy can get, due to the limited and dwindling supply of cards for those formats.
Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 8,006
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I said it was in WOTC's interest, not that they acted well on it.
The fact that older formats are so popular on MTGO means new decks keep showing up, which makes people play them in paper.
Thanks for agreeing on the sale, even though the game is getting more popular in china, it has just increased fakes instead of demand.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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Well yes, older formats continue to get more popular on MTGO because more of those cards continually appear on MTGO. Legacy would definitely be more popular if they printed Legacy cards, but owners of those cards don't want that. The reserved list ultimately only hurts the popularity of Legacy and Vintage, even if it does protect the price of those cards, but the converse is that it sets a relative ceiling on how valuable they can get due to a relatively inelastic demand.
Reserve list cards have outperformed a large number of other investment vehicles over the past 30 years. Just be happy.
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Punko
Macho Ma'am
- 8,006
- 12,832
If they cancel the reserve list, they will lose what is left of their credibility when it comes to cards being valuable, which also impacts the possibility to sell extremely "limited" stuff.
Sales boost would be temporary, and once someone has a legacy collection, they only buy a few singles every set.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Rather than cancel the reserve list, they need to print different cards and decks of similar power, so that invested players may be the only ones with their old decks, but newer players can join in with their decks.
I had a blast playing Legacy with my Modern Affinity deck plus the banned artifact lands. It just needed a little extra to be properly competitive.
So when they return to old planes, mechanics should be designed to work with the good decks from the last set there to make something new and good for Legacy. Scar block did that for the Mirrodin decks, but the Phyrexia block doesn't seem to be (no "post" or "moth" lands!?).
However they only really design for draft with a fre commander cards added in. They need to pull designers off all these shitty supplemental sets and get them tweaking cards to be backwards compatible.
They also need less fucking formats and sets. Standard, Legacy and Commander is enough and have them all come from the regular new sets and not fromat specific shit.
I had a blast playing Legacy with my Modern Affinity deck plus the banned artifact lands. It just needed a little extra to be properly competitive.
So when they return to old planes, mechanics should be designed to work with the good decks from the last set there to make something new and good for Legacy. Scar block did that for the Mirrodin decks, but the Phyrexia block doesn't seem to be (no "post" or "moth" lands!?).
However they only really design for draft with a fre commander cards added in. They need to pull designers off all these shitty supplemental sets and get them tweaking cards to be backwards compatible.
They also need less fucking formats and sets. Standard, Legacy and Commander is enough and have them all come from the regular new sets and not fromat specific shit.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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The problem is the extremely limited supply of Legacy dual lands. They'd have to print a bunch of extremely powerful, low mana cost mono-colored cards capable of building a variety mono-colored decks. Basically a bunch of cards that only care about basics and/or snow and/or something else gimmicky like that.
New non-rotating formats like Modern and Pioneer have come out of the playerbase demanding new formats. For players that started 20 years ago, Modern is their Legacy. For players that started playing 10 years ago, Pioneer fills that niche.
There's no good solution to this. Legacy players are always like "I wish Legacy was more popular" but everything it would take to make Legacy more popular, aside from printing digital cards, would just piss off the Legacy players. Complaining without thinking about the consequences is pretty dumb. As it is, WOTC has done things that print powerful new cards directly into Legacy/Vintage without disrupting Standard/Modern/Pioneer.
At least you paper players don't have to deal with the bullshit that is Alchemy/Historic!
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,436
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What about those dual faced dual lands? How good are they?
Make a better version with an easy condition to flip them (during your upkeep you may flip this) and now you have something not as good as full dual lands but still decent. Now add a card that does something when lands flip and you have something interesting.
Mist
REEEEeyore
- 31,190
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Those are about as relevant to Legacy as playing with a controller is to WoW. Actually, far less.
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ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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I don't think reprinting the duals would change the price of the originals by any significant amount.
We've already seen plenty of examples of this for cards that have no actual gameplay value and have seen numerous reprints, and with nearly entire sets like 4th edition etc.
Look at Erhnam Djinn - absolutely worthless card that can be had for 25 cents, or a casual 300$ if you want the OG.
That all said I don't think WOTC has any interest in supporting Legacy in any meaningful way and will only break open the reprint floodgates when they run out of quarterly growth selling transformers cards or whatever.
We've already seen plenty of examples of this for cards that have no actual gameplay value and have seen numerous reprints, and with nearly entire sets like 4th edition etc.
Look at Erhnam Djinn - absolutely worthless card that can be had for 25 cents, or a casual 300$ if you want the OG.
That all said I don't think WOTC has any interest in supporting Legacy in any meaningful way and will only break open the reprint floodgates when they run out of quarterly growth selling transformers cards or whatever.
OneofOne
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 6,883
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The problem is you're comparing very rare OG Djinns (in terms of numbers printed) with much, much, MUCH more available Revised duals. OG Djinn prices are held up by collectors. Prices of far more common duals are held up by players, collectors, and investors. Flood some new duals and you're removing 2 of those groups holding prices up.
21k AR Erhnam Djinns vs 290k of each Revised dual (another 16k from Unlimited so hardly worth mentioning)
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
- 8,254
- 7,800
Okay fine, let's do Onslaught fetches then. They took a ~30-50% hit when Khans got printed and immediately rebounded to being worth double or more the Khans printings, and there's what, half a million of each of them floating around?
It's true for every OG printing of every card, and is more pronounced the older the originals get. Duals might shave 20-30% initially but they would recovery quickly based on the market growing and ever more demand to have the originals.
It's true for every OG printing of every card, and is more pronounced the older the originals get. Duals might shave 20-30% initially but they would recovery quickly based on the market growing and ever more demand to have the originals.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 28,912
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Doing an anniversary reprint of Action Comics #1 never impacts the price of the original. I'm no longer convinced trashing the reserved list would mean shit aside from maybe one initial panic selloff that those people all later regret. It's not like Hasbro would print Chronicles 2 and pass out tons of sweet reprints on the cheap in a gigantic print run. It would all be either limited or expensive or both.