MTG thread

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm
6,976
8,743
That's both true and not. Mostly it is, there are differences however - 3 off the top of my head - but the big one being how you can manipulate cards in a digital game that you could never do in a physical one.

So no, I don't blame them for trying to defend their intellectual property, as any company should do. I blame them for making it necessary for someone else to swipe their shit in order to actually move the genre forward in leaps and bounds instead of WOTC's snail's pace. WOTC has shown a glaring contempt for their customers, and they are now going after a company looking to treat those customers better. Well, fuck Hasbro and WOTC, that's the risk you take being innovation-stifling cunts who tell their customers to eat shit burgers.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
No one ever makes it "necessary for someone else to swipe their shit". If they stole it, they stole it.
 

OneofOne

Silver Baronet of the Realm
6,976
8,743
No one ever makes it "necessary for someone else to swipe their shit". If they stole it, they stole it.
Hrm no, stop reacting from the gut and think about that for a second and you'll see how absolute statements like that are never a good idea. That said, in this instance, there's obviously disagreement.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I dunno.. Other then the cost of magic, I don't see how wizards has treated their customers badly at all. They do the things people ask for, it just takes a few years because that's how far ahead their development cycle is. As for the cost, people are buying their product in ever increasing numbers, so that's a business decision. Yes, it sucks for some people that you gotta spend hundreds every few months to keep up with standard, but there's enough customers that do it that it's a successful business model. It's a luxury recreation hobby with a professional circuit. If you can't afford it, you probably shouldn't be playing.
If they printed the most powerful cards at more common rarities to drop the price, they'd lose money overall. The increased players wouldn't make up for the drop in prices and sales. That said, when things get really out of hand, they've made moves to correct that (Modern Masters) too.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,816
87,046
Hasn't treated their customers badly? Oh, you've never used MTGO...

But seriously folks,

It's a luxury recreation hobby with a professional circuit. If you can't afford it, you probably shouldn't be playing.
I agree with the meat of your post completely and I don't think Wizards has treated their customers poorly at all but that attitude always makes me want to strangle people. There isn't anything exclusive about spending money. I know people from all income brackets that spend too much on the game so they can have the best of the best for their five dollar entrance fee FNM. These are people that will never do anything on the competitive scene outside of going 1-3 drop at a Grand Prix. That has nothing to do with Wizards and everything to do with a scene that I think has gone out of it's fucking mind. Just the phrase "luxury recreation" makes me want to punt kittens.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
It's a costly hobby to keep up with, there's nothing incorrect about calling it that - luxury recreation is a silly way to phrase it, but it's the same thing - a costly hobby.

And it really depends where you're at, my local store until they started hosting SCG stuff didn't have too many of those types - lots of budget players with only a few people that spend ridiculously to get full 4 of sets. I'm curious to see when I head out there on a MTG night if it's changed post SCG though, got a feeling the douche quotient will be higher now.

I only spend $30 or so every rotation since I only care about playing casually and pre-SCG I was still competitive the couple times I FNMed. (I don't go religiously, maybe once a month)
 

Xalara

Golden Squire
826
81
WotC's development cycle isn't as far ahead as everyone thinks it is. Maybe in the past, but with how modern supply chains work, among other things, WotC can be quite nimble when it needs to be in making last minute changes to set.

As for treating customers like shit, that is mostly related to Magic Online and WotC needs to just rethink everything related to it from booster pack prices, to the existence of set redemption, to their prize payouts, etc.

I am increasingly convinced, based on conversations with people in the know, that besides not paying developers properly the thing holding MTGO back is its rules engine. Oh it evaluates card interactions beautifully but from what i can tell it is so tightly coupled to every other system and the client that it hamstrings everything.

The worst part i that I will continue to play MTGO because it is the most efficient way that I can get better as a player. However I am getting very close to dropping it.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I should clarify, that IF you are complaining about how much magic costs, then you shouldn't be playing. If you want to play casually, then cost isn't nearly as much of a factor. It's the people that want to be competitive and own all the cards, but can't afford it, that tend to complain the loudest about prices.

I work at a game store, and I see the casual players all the time. They raid our common/uncommon box or bulk rare box for practically a full deck, spending a total of maybe $10 in the process. But, it's just to play against their buddy who is standing next to them doing the same thing. They'll do that once every 6 months and be fine. More power to those players, and they make up a significant portion of the magic playerbase, they just aren't very vocal. They don't post on forums or generally associate with other magic players other then their little play group, but there's tons of them out there.

WotC's development cycle IS very long, but making small last minute tweaks can be done, sure. That's two separate things. But, using the most hot button example, the player base has asked for fetch lands and they agree the price for entry to modern is too high. When did they skyrocket? Within the last year. Ok, so should they have thrown them into Theros? Hell no, then we'd have shocks and fetches in standard and it was largely finished by that point. They can't throw them into m15 either for the same reason, though a much shorter time period, and they may not even show up in Tarkir since it might not fit the theme that the entire block is built around (though, I kinda think they will, or we'll get a Modern Masters II announcement). So, if that's the case, we wouldn't see them for another year from now, at the earliest. That set is also being fleshed out in R&D as we speak, and they aren't going to shoehorn in something that doesn't make sense, or scrap the entire rest of the block's themes so that it does either.

They start working on sets more then 2 years in advance, and if a problem arises that they didn't foresee, it can take two years for a natural fix to come out. If they just start panicing and throwing band-aids into sets at the last minute, without proper testing, then it has a higher chance to cause a chain reaction of more problems

I will say that I sort of forgot about all of the MTGO bullshit lately, as I do not play MTGO. I do not play it, because it's a shitty interface, so I do agree that MTGO is pretty crap. That's the one thing I don't understand, why they aren't willing to put the money into re-writing the game from the ground up with a better programming team at the helm. Playing a game like hearthstone and then trying to play MTGO feels like a timewarp 15 years into the past of computers.
 

Elerion

N00b
735
46
As long as WOTC doesn't address the problem of not being able to playtest with proxies, the constructed scene on MTGO will remain boring as shit. Only a tiny subset of players are willing to invest the time/money to build a full playset, and being forced to buy all the cards for a deck before you playtest it is dumb as fuck.

They should just mirror real life rules. Outside of tournaments, proxies are fine if both agree. In tournaments, they are not. Certain casual tournaments may allow a limited number of proxies.

Hell, I just googled mtgo proxies and this article which popped up is pretty much on point.
StarCityGames.com - 18 Ways To Improve Magic Online

I haven't touched MTGO in years, so some of this may be fixed now, I dunno.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,816
87,046
One of the things I like the most about MTGO is the deckbuilder. It's so damn handy to be able to instantly sort by whatever I want and tinker with stuff. You know what, show me every card in standard with the word "draw" on it. "Search?" "Without paying?" What about "copy?"

And cards that don't matter arecheap.Most of the rares in Theros block are a nickle. I paid 18 cents per Fleecemane Lion and 15 cents per Chained to the Rocks. I've already increased my profit over 9 fold on Mistcutter Hydra (5 cents to 48 cents, get on my level). And the cards don't take up space. Hell, I sold a bunch of old crap last month and turned those tickets that into real dollars in about 5 seconds with eBay.

I'm the beggar king of MTGO.

Even if you could only goldfish with proxies it would be a massive step forward. I've wanted to test interactions/see things in action numerous times and been unable to because I don't have all the cards.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
Took infect to modern tonight for a lark and went 4-0. It was worth playing just to watch the jund regulars get all salty about losing to combo.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,800
24,477
One of the things I like the most about MTGO is the deckbuilder. It's so damn handy to be able to instantly sort by whatever I want and tinker with stuff. You know what, show me every card in standard with the word "draw" on it. "Search?" "Without paying?" What about "copy?"

And cards that don't matter arecheap.Most of the rares in Theros block are a nickle. I paid 18 cents per Fleecemane Lion and 15 cents per Chained to the Rocks. I've already increased my profit over 9 fold on Mistcutter Hydra (5 cents to 48 cents, get on my level). And the cards don't take up space. Hell, I sold a bunch of old crap last month and turned those tickets that into real dollars in about 5 seconds with eBay.

I'm the beggar king of MTGO.

Even if you could only goldfish with proxies it would be a massive step forward. I've wanted to test interactions/see things in action numerous times and been unable to because I don't have all the cards.
I know someone who can cashes tickets out for .95 cents without worrying about ebay fees, in via paypal gift and in very large quantities too.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
Mono black infect or green?
BUG, though I honestly think the black splash is irrelevant. You can't sideboard much anyway, and Plague Stinger is the worst creature in the deck by a country mile. I may drop it for Ichor Claw Myr and just save myself the pain from shock lands. While it was nice to feel like I had answers in Dismember, Abrupt Decay or Inquisition in the sideboard, in truth they never really mattered. I don't think I sided in anything besides Spellskite and a couple Inquisitions all night (and I only cast IoK once).

Extra evasion or protection seem a lot more important.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,800
24,477
I think mono black is the best modern infect deck. Then again, it's not a combo deck, it's a control deck.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
Yeah, I do like mono black. I may try it a couple weeks from now when the sting wears off. If I try infect again next week I'll get hated out by round 2 for sure.
 

Strossus

Silver Knight of the Realm
253
35
is mono green infect still the 1 trick pony of hoping for a star's align 10 point infect swing on turn 2?